OTB Re-Entry, Fair to All ?

A good friend of mine recently went to a weekend swiss in the US and played the first round on Friday evening. It has become the custom to allow players the choice of playing the first round on Friday evening or on Sat morning, at a faster time control. He is also an NM. Well, he lost to a lower rated player and decided to pay an extra $35. and re-enter the tournament and play round 1 over again Sat morning. I can see that this is an easy way for organizers to make extra cash but is it fair to all the players involved ? I mean if someone loses in any round other than first round on friday evening they dont get this " do over " so I dont see how it can be considered fair at all to all those people who lose in say round 2 or 3 , or even in round 1 but they played on Sat morning instead of friday evening...... There was an incident some years ago where a GM lost like this and re-entered . He ended up winning the event with 5-0 after reentering but 2nd place went to someone with 4.5 who didnt re-enter so he had 4.5 with only 5 games played while the winner had 5 but actually played 6 games...... is this fair ?!  I think not.......

I have to agree that it's not fair, but, if allowed, the player re-entering should not be allowed to place  higher than 2nd or 3rd. There is no way they should be able to win it all.

As far as the other players are concerned, it's no different than if the re-entering player had simply withdrawn and a different player had signed up on Saturday morning.

It doesn't help the re-entering player to play and lose Friday night.

It would be fairer to eliminate that game, that you e.g can make 4 out of 4 instead of 4 / 5...

A split round just seems very awkward to me, not even considering the re-entries (which are even weirder).

If players were "offered the choice" of when to play, then everyone had the chance to set themselves up for a first round rebuy.  So there's no competitive disadvantage, unless one simply can't afford a $35 rebuy, in which case I'd argue he probably shouldn't be spending his scant few dollars on chess tournament entry fees anyway.

There's no unfairness in not having the same opportunity for 2nd and 3rd round losers either.  The tournament structure, like chess itself, was a game of perfect information.  The competitors knew all this going in, and were free to strategize accordingly.

Do the players who entered Friday and thus have a chance at a rebuy have a competitive advantage in some way?  Sure.  They maybe get two tries to get through a first round match where any one random opponent may be a stylistic nightmare matchup for them.  They get a mulligan in case they're feeling foggy headed the first go-round.

But you can argue that they *should* have that advantage, because before the tournament even started, they've begun making better strategic choices than their opponents who took a pass on that opportunity.

STOP THE HATE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 There is a difference between 'afford' and 'justifiably spend'.  Sure many people could 'afford' to do it, but many others could not justify spending double the entry fee every tournament in order to compete with those who have more money.  It's unfair, the only advantage that any player should have in a tournament is the advantages they create for themselves through the moves they make, not how large and free-flowing their wallet is.

A

Nuts.

The tournament chess scene is a joke and will continue to be.  Chess over the internet will FAR surpass OTB on all but the very highest levels.

Just allowing people to play faster time controls is absurd.  If the person is not a very good player, simply a fast player, of course they will choose to play the faster time control.  Everyone else will have to play a long tough game where their opponent has enough time to thwart rudimentary attacks, while the people playing faster can throw around the pieces half assed and while still getting the same recognition.

Like I said before: nuts.

Now you can LOSE in a tournament but still have a chance of beating or finishing equal with someone who hasnt lost a single game in the very same tournament.  All you have to do is pay.

What a joke.

 The tournament Chess scene isn't a joke, perhaps in the US but not in Europe or the rest of the World imo.  I can't actually comment on the US, hence why I said perhaps, so I won't until I've played there but this does seem like a silly 'feature' to tournaments that would not happen here.

......Instead of "Stop the hate" I will preach "Full speed ahead with the hate!"

In a game based on logic and unbiased anaysis its perfectly ok to hate illogical and absurd rules.  

The only player to win both the Georgia championship and the Georgia Senior championship, David 'High Plains Drifter' Vest calls anyone who re-enters a 'Zombie'. He is, obviously, against any kind of re-entry. If you get near the 'House of Pain', aka the Atlanta Chess & Game Center, push his button and mention players who re-enter!

I agree with you. The "stop the hate" thing was directed towards Reb, who keeps posting that comment in any thread that disrespects his idol RJF.

OTB re-Entry, Fair to all?

As a concept, I personally don't approve; as to "fair to all", yes, if you assume that everyone has the same opportunity whether they are higher rated or lower rated.

Hey, I was going to say that :p.  I mean, everyone has the same opportunity to pay extra to have a first round loss swept under the carpet... but still I agree with an earlier post that if it's a loss and you re-enter, to have certain restrictions, at least about being able to win the whole event.  I mean... how can you win the event if you lost a game at the event? (and the #2 guy didn't). It might be somewhat fair to all, but I don't like the setup.

Re-entry is a bad deal if they get to re-start the tournament. I think if someone withdraws,and they want to re-enter they should re-enter with the first game as..their first game of the remaining games...

then they wouldn't need to reenter c-saw beacause they could just continue the way they are, if you keep the first game on their tournament record.

I think re-entry should be allowed, but not into the original section of entry. Perhaps someone was playing up because they were tempted by the allure of a larger prize, but got a rude awakening that they would not be able to be competetive. Perhaps they were a sandbagger playing in a lower section, got over confident, and now they would be forced to play a more competetive field. Perhaps they just got off to a bad start, and they just really want to try to win a prize. If they do not qualify for any other section (i.e. they can only play in the Open section), then that's just too bad. In any case, the re-entry would have no bearing on people that are playing in the "zombie's" original section.