overtraining

Hello wasent sure if this was the right place to put this

Anyway overtraining is more used term in other sports that involves the body more and from trying to google some info on this subject it looks like that is where the  research have been done.

What i am looking for is to understand overtraning better when it comes to the mind in order to maximize development.

one other way of asking the question is if you where to be the best chess player in the world lests say you are going to work in this goal for 20-30 years.

How much would you train 8 hours a day 12, 16?

5 days a week? 6 days? 7? every 15 day a free day?

have a god day

I'm pretty sure that 16hrs. a day, 7 days a week, for 30 years is "overtraining". So we can probably cancel out that scenario.

Well, I'd start off by emphasising that most players train too little, not too much. That's why we're not all masters :)

To begin with, look into some general learning science. For example, most healthy teenagers and adults are unable to sustain attention on one thing for more than about 20 minutes at a time. Hence, the training should change the activity often, and provide ample breaks.

The other pitfall is losing motivation. Once you feel disgust towards training, let it be for the day. You could burn out if you push yourself too hard.

This is really too complicated to describe in a forum post. If you're genuinely interested in the topic, get some books on learning (behaviorism, cognitivism, and constructivism) and instruction theory. There are also publications directly about chess coaching.

It would make sense to start with the "monster traning" and investigating that first.

I dont think we can be so sure if 12-16 hours a day everyday is not optimal for your development

  How do you know? Have someone really tried this? maybe not for 30 years and maybe not everyday but what is some of the "monster trainers" dont just have to be in chess
but also in other fields like politics,science,engineering,banking that sort of thing. What have there results been do it prove that monster traning is optimal?How about the same thing for 40 hours a week workers and so on.

happy to hear ideas to solve this question. :)

I hope not! There are other things in life that should be of higher value than chess, 1kguy.

6 - 8h hours/day is said to be a normal training time for a professionell chess player. I doubt that it is possible to do mental work on a reasonable high level for more than 8 hours/day.

 hehe it sure is it was just a question for understanding the subject better.

I recently finished a book called "Talent Is Overrated" and it relates in many ways to your question. In fact the Polgar sisters are prominently featured in that book along with Tiger Woods and Jerry Rice and many other world class individuals. 

Without intending to oversimplify the answer, I think an interesting number involves 4 hours per day of a certain kind of practice called "deliberate practice" (It's possible that some believe this intense form of practice can only be sustained about 4 hours per day)  Here's a quote I found from someone that reviewed the book at amazon.com:

The deliberate practice condition also encompasses the 10,000 hours requirement in becoming an expert whether that is business, music or sports to name a few endeavors. This translates into roughly what I call the 4/6/10 phenomena - 4 hours a day, 6 days a week for 10 years. Taking a few weeks off a year helps recovery so its about 1000 hours per year.  

I have a related question.

Some days I feel like I am "on", and can really do well in say the tactics trainer. other days I just cant focus (on one of these days I was on the tactics trainer and my rating fell from about 1920 to about 1550 in a one hour session. I was not too happy about it!)

I am due for my first OTB tournament this upcoming weeked and I definetly want to be "on". Any advice about how to study (or not study!) in the days leading up to it so my poor brain is in top condition?

It's important that you're well-rested. Some tactics training the days before is enough.

Good luck in your first OTB, and welcome to real chess !

 Thanks, although I misrote my post. Its my first OTB in several years, but by no means my first ever! I just take little retirements from chess that sometimes last 5 or more years.

Then welcome back

Bobby Fischer is quoted as saying that he put 98% of his mental energy into chess. The rest of his life he only devoted 2%. That is clearly an exaggeration, but it gives some indication of the single minded focus that he used when he was a teenager.

When people are young and love something enough (like chess) it is impossible to train or study too much. A developing mind can acquire tremendous amounts of information.

 Of course this is an exaggeration when it comes to Bobby Fischer.

The actual figurefor the rest is probably more like .5%.

Lol. So true!!

The Endgame novel by Frank Brady tells so many great stories about him. I loved the one where he would come home from school and just study chess until the sun disappeared. Bobby's mother would come home from her part time job and just find him there in the dark. She would have to close all the curtains and turn the lights on.

 what is really "deliberate practice"?

what like to know more how they did come up wuth the 4/6/10 "rule" is it really and study behind it just feel based?

Deliberate practice is when you're willingly training a skill you need to develop.

For example, let's say you don't know the basics of K+p endgames. Deliberate practice would be to study the standard position in a book, and then play a set of related training positions against a sparring partner.

 another way of putting it traning your weakest part of your game?

Or partS, yes.

But this is about training, not only accumulating knowledge. What you're aiming for is improving your skills.

Getting relevant knowledge is only the preparation for the training

how much do it change from player to player or are they all around there?