People repeating moves

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bobbyDK
tomtryto skrev:

well it's not so bad if you can avoid a repeating situation, or cause a draw through the three repeat rule, but I still say what happend to manners. We shouldn't have to have the three repeat rule. It's just basic respect!

that makes calculation very important if you are winning, don't give your opponent a change to repeat moves - because he will do it. - in order to prevent losing.

it has nothing to do with manners. everybody is on his own as soon as the game starts.

use tactic trainer each day and at some point you learn to calculate to prevent that your opponent has a change to prevent repeating moves. - and you will at that point enjoy the challenge.

if I am in a completely winning position I look out for danger. Does my opponent have a stalemate trap. does my opponent have perpetual check. cause one bad move will give my opponent a draw. - and that hurts in a completely winning position.

pawnwhacker

tomtryto, with all due respect, you need to get over what you think is good manners in chess.

 

Whatever moves the opponent makes has absolutely nothing to do with good manners. Either the move is legal or it is not. Morales and ethics are not involved. See: legal or illegal.

 

Now, if we are to quibble about morals and ethics, then I propose that it is immoral in an OTB game for an opponent to be snacking on potato chips while I am trying to think. Or burping. Or loudly blowing his snoz. Or tapping his foot. Or shaking the table. Or coughing across the board. Or...

 

Footnote: I don't mind if he is peeing in his pants. Seeing such, I know I have a won game...lol.

tomtryto

Okay, okay I'm wrong! I will just make them accept a draw through the three repeat rule. By the way, is that rule a recent addition or a basic part of the original rules?

pawnwhacker

That rule has been around longer than you or I have been alive.

Example (from Wikipedia):

Alekhine versus Lasker, 1914

The first game between world champion Emanuel Lasker and future (1927) world champion Alexander Alekhine ended in a short draw, due to a forced repetition of position: 1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.d4 exd4 4.Nxd4 Nf6 5.Nc3 Bb4 6.Nxc6 bxc6 7.Bd3 d5 8.exd5 cxd5 9.0-0 0-0 10.Bg5 Be6 11.Qf3 Be7 12.Rfe1 h6 13.Bxh6 gxh6 14.Rxe6 fxe6 15.Qg3+ Kh8 16.Qg6 and the players agreed to a draw because Black cannot avoid the repetition of position: 16...Qe8 17.Qxh6+ Kg8 18.Qg5+ Kh8 19.Qh6+ (Hooper & Whyld 1992) (underRepetition of Position).

Interestingly, these two players had another game[9] in 1914 in which Alekhine (this time with the black pieces) again achieved a draw by a similar process (Bott & Morrison 1966:14).

Jenium
bobbyDK wrote:
Jenium skrev:

I think since your opponent declined your draw offer he was playing "hope chess" that you suddenly played an alternative move.

this is not rude to hope but bad chess playing.

There are plenty of good reasons to repeat moves. GMs do it all the time. Neither hope chess nor poor play.

if you read my previous post you will know I say the same thing but from the description it sounds like hope chess. why else reject draw if you keep repeating move in the same position. other than to hope for an error.

Yes, misread that. In the example of the OP this might have been the case...

Jenium

Some psychological reasons to repeat moves...

1. You want to find out whether your opponent would be willing to accept a draw.

2. You can urge your higher rated opponent to play the second best move in order to avoid the draw.

3. You repeat twice to make your opponent think s/he will get away with the draw and then make a statement by playing a different move.

tomtryto

Okay, well the original example states that after both players repeated moves, they agreed to draw, which is what I offered and had refused. Apparently they had better manners than my opponent. Thanks for the insight though.

TheGoalkeeper

Annoyment.

tomtryto

Why?

WeLearnChess

If you think you are winning the position, don't repeat and play for the win. 

If repetition is your only salvation, go for it.

If you're winning but your opponent has a repetition that you can't avoid, hit the draw button after threefold happens (they might just repeat forever otherwise and try to win on time).  

tomtryto

okay good point XPlAYERJX, I'm convinced. I'm glad the 3 move rule exists though, as it does seem to make things fairer, to me anyway.

bobbyDK
XPLAYERJX skrev:
tomtryto wrote:

okay good point XPlAYERJX, I'm convinced. I'm glad the 3 move rule exists though, as it does seem to make things fairer, to me anyway.

Yeah there is no shame in draws man a draw is better than a loss because it only proves that both sides played perfectly

I agree in most things you said but I don't believe it has anything to do with perfectly. you may said carefully. In many cases perpetual check is a result of not calculating deep enough to prevent it.

only +2700 play something similiar to perfect chess.

Janet-Alverahenda

I think that it is fine that you repeat a move if you have no other good moves.... Though this is my first time playing American chess but you should be allowed to...I guess it just depends on what your opinion is.

_Number_6
tomtryto wrote:

I think it's cheating a bit. I mean it can't possibly be a sensible move if you know the reply will be a repeat move by your opponent.

It's sensible if any other move loses.  It's also legal thus not at all cheating.  Often in blitz or time pressure a player will not accept a draw because they have already moved. The game is over once the position is repeated three times which usually isn't far off.  Happens all the time. 

_Number_6
Janet-Alverahenda wrote:

...first time playing American chess ...

I wasn't aware there was such a variant..   Do you wear pads and a helmet in American Chess or is it just playing the Dutch Stonewall at the UN, followed by invading a small country? 

jonathansfirstacount

lol

camberfoil

@OP One word: Capablanca.

_Number_6

Janets should try 1...a6

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kCW0TXH6e0g

TBentley

In Xiangqi, perpetual check is not allowed. (The exact rules about repetitions are not clear to me.) The Wikipedia article about Janggi contradicts itself, first saying there are no draws, then saying repetition results in a draw when there are less than 30 points. In Shogi, apparently repetition results in a draw unless it's perpetual check. Generally in these cases, the player forcing the repetitions (generally by perpetual check) loses. (I only mention this because of the earlier mention of "American chess"; I agree with chess's implementation of the threefold repetition rule.)

bobbyDK
XPLAYERJX skrev:
bobbyDK wrote:
XPLAYERJX skrev:
tomtryto wrote:

okay good point XPlAYERJX, I'm convinced. I'm glad the 3 move rule exists though, as it does seem to make things fairer, to me anyway.

Yeah there is no shame in draws man a draw is better than a loss because it only proves that both sides played perfectly

I agree in most things you said but I don't believe it has anything to do with perfectly. you may said carefully. In many cases perpetual check is a result of not calculating deep enough to prevent it.

only +2700 play something similiar to perfect chess.

Well I was just making the statement that if both sides were to play perfect it should end in a draw but I suppose that can be up for speculation. We all start with the same amount of pieces/pawns if we play perfect my logic is we should end with the same amount of material just 2 kings etc. As for rankings I would disagree. I have played perfect before I'm sure alot of people have my opponent didn't but that is how games are won. The only thing that happens in 2700+ chess level is that both sides usually play perfect.

perfect?! I think you should see this interview http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B2KKfOGaR_w