Please help me find the right chess engine for me.

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jkh0208

I tried to delete my original post for this since I titled it incorrectly, but the forum won't let me delete it. My question is as follows:

 

Besides Hiarcs, can anyone recommend an engine that plays relatively human-like moves or uses tactics similar to a human when playing at lower difficulty settings? I'm not concerned about how high its ELO rating is or how it fares in engine matches, but instead how it scales in difficulty (in otherwords, not like Chessmaster where lower difficulties handicap by throwing in completely random blunders that a relatively seasoned player would never make at that particular ELO rating). I've tried several versions of Stockfish and hate how it plays, feels quite mechanical. I've played earlier versions of Komodo and enjoy games against it to some degree due to its preference for a more closed game and positional playing style, but not sure if incremental updates significantly improve its playing at the lower levels or simply boost its overall ELO rating. I also tried Fritz 12 and 13 (again, feels mechanical) and several free engines (every engine that comes with PicoChess) and haven't found any that really satisfy that itch except Komodo 9 and Hiarcs (don't own Hiarcs, but have played against it in the past on a friend's machine and it seemed to be the most humanlike). I'm currently looking at the latest version of Houdini, Komodo 11, or Fritz 15 because they come with the latest Fritz GUI. I prefer the Fritz GUI over Shredder, Aquarium, and several others I've tried, so I want to stick with it. Hiarcs now comes with its own GUI which is not compatible with my DGT board, so that one is ruled out. Can anyone provide any suggestions for an engine that is actually enjoyable to play against at lower difficulty levels (~1200-1700 ELO)?

Thanks!

Please note: I understand that playing against an AI will never be the same as against a human, but there are circumstances which have me requiring an option for an AI to play against (not just for analysis purposes, but actual entertainment). I also understand that I could potentially pick up some bad habits by practicing against the computer, but I'm willing to take that risk in this situation.

jkh0208

I'm not familiar with giraffe, but I definitely can't play at IM strength. I'm mostly looking at engines sold on Chessbase because I already have a voucher for Chessbase.com, and I like the Fritz interface.  I did notice that Hiarcs 13 is sold there, but 14 is already out on the Hiarcs website.

jkh0208

I agree that no engine will play like a human, but I have noticed that some engines tend to simulate mistakes far worse than others. I've also noticed that some engines (like older versions of Komodo) have you changing a bunch of obscure variables to lower difficulty rather than inputting an ELO rating to simulate. I've been looking at Houdini which seems to solve that latter problem while also introducing a feature that interests me, tactical mode. I'm not sure if "tactical mode" is strictly an analytical tool or actually useful in sparring if you want the engine to play tactically vice positionally (interested in variety between tactical mode being on and off). Also, in Frits 13, the sparring mode difficulty settings do not work with Komodo 9, so I have to alter Komodo 9 engine parameters. Do you know if this is the same with other engines, like Houdini? Finally, I read that Fritz 15 UI has made sparring/friend mode adaptive and changes simulated ELO rating based on player performance over several games. Does this feature work with third party engines or only with Fritz?

SeniorPatzer

Won't beating a chess engine that's rated at 2000 help you to beat humans rated less than 2000?

jkh0208

DeirdreSky: Because on Chessbase, Houdini 5 and Komodo 11 come with the Fritz 15 interface  (vice just the engine alone on the developers' respective websites), so I don't lose anything. I thought about buying Fritz 15, but I didn't like how Fritz 13 played compared to other engines I've tried.  On lower difficulties, mistakes the engine made seem random. The engine would play several good moves and then through in a random awful move that no competent person would make.  I've had better luck with Komodo 9 in this regard, but I hate the engine parameters layout. Not sure if 11 has improved that, but Houdini 5's parameters look right up my alley (judging by description and the manual), as long as the engine holds up with regards to scalable simulated strengths.

LeonSKennedy992

7 words.  DON'T use an engine until past 1400

jkh0208
LeonSKennedy992 wrote:

7 words.  DON'T use an engine until past 1400

Unfortunately, that's not always an option for me.

LeonSKennedy992
jkh0208 wrote:
LeonSKennedy992 wrote:

7 words.  DON'T use an engine until past 1400

Unfortunately, that's not always an option for me.

 

Engines can worsen your play.  Wait until higher rated to use them.

Wish you the best.

jkh0208

The issue is that there are times when I'm deployed for 6-8 months out at a time without access to reliable internet, and I haven't met anyone at my command that plays chess or has the free time to play.  And, I'm a bit of a chess addict.  It's a bit of a stress reliever for me.  Tried playing video games instead, but didn't really do it for me (not mentally stimulating enough, outside of a few strategy games and rpgs).

SeniorPatzer
jkh0208 wrote:

The issue is that there are times when I'm deployed for 6-8 months out at a time without access to reliable internet, and I haven't met anyone at my command that plays chess or has the free time to play.  And, I'm a bit of a chess addict.  It's a bit of a stress reliever for me.  

 

Thanks Joe for serving.  I appreciate your duty.

jkh0208

Thanks for the kind words!

LeonSKennedy992
jkh0208 wrote:

The issue is that there are times when I'm deployed for 6-8 months out at a time without access to reliable internet, and I haven't met anyone at my command that plays chess or has the free time to play.  And, I'm a bit of a chess addict.  It's a bit of a stress reliever for me.  Tried playing video games instead, but didn't really do it for me (not mentally stimulating enough, outside of a few strategy games and rpgs).

 

stress reliever?!?!?!  Try playing ONE minute bullet.  I can assure you that will be stressful haha happy.png

jkh0208
LeonSKennedy992 wrote:
jkh0208 wrote:

The issue is that there are times when I'm deployed for 6-8 months out at a time without access to reliable internet, and I haven't met anyone at my command that plays chess or has the free time to play.  And, I'm a bit of a chess addict.  It's a bit of a stress reliever for me.  Tried playing video games instead, but didn't really do it for me (not mentally stimulating enough, outside of a few strategy games and rpgs).

 

stress reliever?!?!?!  Try playing ONE minute bullet.  I can assure you that will be stressful haha

Yep, one minute bullet is too fast and hectic for me! Good old fashion long games and 10 minute blitz is good enough for me! happy.png

jkh0208
AhPhoey wrote:

Jkh, there's many engines out there to cheat with.  Which one is best for you is subjective.  Do you want one to get you to 3000, or do you want one simply to impress the chess.com girls - a wide range of motives only you know. 

I don't understand what you're implying. I rarely play online other than with my kids when I'm away from home, and that's via Shredderchess. I'm not looking to improve, I'm looking for a decent AI sparring partner while on deployment. I'm bored with Stockfish and Fritz 13, so I was looking for something different. I don't understand what cheating has to do with that. Also not sure why you assume I have any interest in impressing chess.com girls considering I'm happily and faithfully married.

jkh0208
AhPhoey wrote:
jkh0208 wrote:
AhPhoey wrote:

Jkh, there's many engines out there to cheat with.  Which one is best for you is subjective.  Do you want one to get you to 3000, or do you want one simply to impress the chess.com girls - a wide range of motives only you know. 

I don't understand what you're implying. I rarely play online other than with my kids when I'm away from home, and that's via Shredderchess. I'm not looking to improve, I'm looking for a decent AI sparring partner while on deployment. I don't understand what cheating has to do with that. Also not sure why you assume I have any interest in impressing chess.com girls considering I'm happily and faithfully married.

Poor joke on my part.  My apologies.

No worries, I just wanted to make sure my intentions weren't misinterpreted. No hard feelings. happy.png

K_Brown
I'm kind of partial to an app called "Play Magnus" ages 9 and up. I feel like it is more "human" than a lot of engines i've tried (Hiarcs, Bouquet, Fire, Shredder, etc...)
DrChesspain
PieceOfPoo wrote:

I'm going to put this plain and simple.  When you train for anything, why train to mediocre standards?  When you go to the gym to workout, why workout with 5 lb weights? When you are training for boxing, why box with a dumb ass that you can punch in the head with ease?  When training martial arts, why hit inanimate boards?  If you want to compete on a high level, you need to train at a high level.  Play the toughest computers, and let them kick your ass day and night. You will improve.  It's not fun, but you will improve.  Why should Chess be any different?  If you don't know why a person who makes bad moves, makes a bad move, or why the move is bad, then you need to understand the theory behind your strategies.  After you know those things, you need to spar with the computer on max strength, and just take the ass whipping.  You will be better for it.  I guarantee it, and anyone who disagrees is just a pansy, soft, lazy, hater.  Don't listen to them.  Play against stockfish max difficulty, and try to win.  

This is simply terrible advice.

MickinMD
jkh0208 wrote:...Besides Hiarcs, can anyone recommend an engine that plays relatively human-like moves or uses tactics similar to a human when playing at lower difficulty settings? I'm not concerned about how high its ELO rating is or how it fares in engine matches, but instead how it scales in difficulty (in otherwords, not like Chessmaster where lower difficulties handicap by throwing in completely random blunders that a relatively seasoned player would never make at that particular ELO rating)..."

Thank you for your service!

The best I can recommend is the freeware Lucas Chess.  You can set it to play more or less reckless, play just below, at, or above your level of play, and make it choose randomly among it's higher rated moves.  You can specify a set of opening moves.  You can use a large number of engines that come with it including Stockfish 8 and several other 2900 or higher rated engines like Komodo 8 and Rybka 2.3.  You can play with your time controls and the engines time controls separately and even give yourself more time during the game.

It doesn't guarantee the won't make stupid blunder moves from time to time, though you can force it to make another move.  I've found that if I go higher than 1400 the ridiculous blunders occur much less frequently.

Lucas Chess is here: http://www-lucaschess.rhcloud.com/index.html

There's no manual, but a good explanation is here:

http://devtome.com/doku.php?id=lucas_chess

jkh0208

Thanks for all of the advice so far.  I decided to get Fritz 15 on a sale and will use my Chessbase voucher for training material instead.  I'm enjoying Fritz 15 so far and am using it now with Houdini 1.5a with good success, and Friend Mode is working great so far with its scaling strength.  I still kind of want Houdini 4 or 5 for its Tactical Mode, so I might either get the engine only version of 5 directly from Houdini since it's cheaper than the Chessbase version, or Houdini 4 since it's on sale on Amazon for $23.99 with Aquarium (I assume I can pull the engine that comes with Aquarium and load it into Fritz 15 like I did with Shredder Classic, please let me know if I'm wrong).

president_max

I believe @pfren, our local friendly IM once recommended critter.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Critter_(chess)