Anyone play magic online? Been online there for 10 years and its not all "pro" like some paper players think. It's enjoyed at many levels. Ok I might be a troll there, what can I say? Blood will out.
Poker Chess Magic The Gathering Baccarat
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Jul 31, 2014
0
#43
I know nothing about Baccarat and Texas Hold'em. I just suppose Baccarat is pure gamble luck game at the level of Draw Poker. I used to play Draw Poker a lot with my classmates who sucked at chess and it is primitive game where player has very little influence, except forbidden methods like e.g. stacking the deck or secret recognizing opponent's cards. Texas Hold'em Poker may be somewhere in between Draw Poker and true skill games.
MtG would be fine, if WotC (Hasbro) weren't so greedy. Rotation of the Standard format made costs unreasonable (eternal formats leave only little room for creativity), and they deliberately spoiled self-born creative MYOS format by power-creep. Therefore I downloaded MtgForge program and sometimes play vs computer for free. Playing constructed MtG I would compare to casual blitz chess, sealed/draft MtG to Fischer random blitz chess.
Chess is definitely the hardest. It is not always a good thing, because it requires full concentration and can be exhausting.
Polar_Bear wrote:
I know nothing about Baccarat and Texas Hold'em. I just suppose Baccarat is pure gamble luck game at the level of Draw Poker. I used to play Draw Poker a lot with my classmates who sucked at chess and it is primitive game where player has very little influence, except forbidden methods like e.g. stacking the deck or secret recognizing opponent's cards. Texas Hold'em Poker may be somewhere in between Draw Poker and true skill games.
MtG would be fine, if WotC (Hasbro) weren't so greedy. Rotation of the Standard format made costs unreasonable (eternal formats leave only little room for creativity), and they deliberately spoiled self-born creative MYOS format by power-creep. Therefore I downloaded MtgForge program and sometimes play vs computer for free. Playing constructed MtG I would compare to casual blitz chess, sealed/draft MtG to Fischer random blitz chess.
Chess is definitely the hardest. It is not always a good thing, because it requires full concentration and can be exhausting.
Not sure it does make costs unreasonable, the rotation. New players cannot instantly compete in an eternal format like Legacy, Vintage, Modern so it allows them to learn a small card pool and play within it, a similar thing that wotc have attempted with the duels of the planeswalkers rubbish. If players group together and get a box of packs (in paper) they can draft and have fun then use the resulting pool to build standard decks. The cards that then rotate out frequently are perfectly playable in other formats so old standard cards become cheaper ones for casual games in eternal formats.
As for comparisons between mtg and chess, try to think of mtg deckbuilding as the opening theory. If you compare sealed/draft (limited is proper term) to randomised chess then you are not grasping that limited has a series of archetypes within each setup (eg core or block) and that these archetypes are not only fairly well known but analysed on the web. Drafting without understanding this could be compared to beginner chess. To compare constructed mtg to blitz chess is wrong too. For the serious player, the positional analysis of chess parallels to the knowledge of the "metagame" in magic, where you know what an archetype of a netdeck is likely to contain and what to be aware might face you. Although I am perfectly competent at mtg, I am aware that the best players will beat me most of the time even with identical decks since they have a better grasp of resources, meta and pace. If you go down to any card shop in paper, cards are 10 pence or cents for fairly playables and not that much to build fun decks.
As for chess being the hardest, sure. It is as hard as you make it. Many people play it for fun, many struggle and still dont grasp it. It does not require full concentration if you play it fairly well, though - it is mainly pattern recognition and occasional calculation.
bong, I played Yugioh at tournaments in paper before I started playing mtg. Been online playing mtg since 2004 now and there are some decks that require innate skillful piloting never mind construction. With all the different formats and the fact that online the cards can be used in multiple decks without owning twice or more, the experience is pretty satisfying. Apart from which, you can sell your mtg collection once done with it - something that is not so easy with Yugioh.
bongcloudftw schreef:
There's good reason why Magic is merely a 'game'. I'm pretty sure if someone would invest say a million dollars into solving the likeliest to best deck, a computer would crunch it out. (okay, it's rock paper and scissors-but still).
Rotation is what makes me play yugioh instead of magic. Wtf damned 2 year cards are gone? All other formats apart from standard I am damn sure there is a theoretical 'best deck' which has a massive win rate since broken stuff is everywhere. Note: prepare to use a lot of your money.
Regarding difficulty of playing the cards-Yeah sure, I can't claim to be LSV in like 2 days, but after legit serious study and some investing say 1 year, I can pretty damn confidently claim I would be among the world's elite. The level of complexion in magic is too low-only thing i see called 'strategy' is I'm stopping you from getting what you want. And usually the plays are autopilot, rarely having more than 2 reasonable plays for a turn.
Do remember, a mere FM was enough to sweep a 40k once.
I'm sure unrated chess players have won Magic PT's before, I don't see the relevance of his FM title.. (btw, Cifka was 2440 at about 18-19 in 2008, he hasn't played as much since. I'm sure he could have reached (or maybe still reach) IM/GM with dedication.)
I do agree that the skill required to be good is nowhere near that of chess, but I don't agree with your claim that one year of intense practise will make you elite, especially through all formats. You can become a strong player in a year though, certainly.
Your stuff about eternal formats having decks which are easily the best are very far off. There are times when a deck is clearly the best choice for a small period of time or one event, but this is usually due to metagame considerations and not just raw power.
Incidentally "at my level" I beat a 2248 last season over the board. Not master stuff, sure, but I do grasp this game reasonably, at least in principle so maybe not great to dismiss so easily. I think my point was made anyway that a lot of what is done at higher level is from knowledge of the systems in chess and fairly automatic. Gradiations of level require knowledge of how to leave an opponent's comfort zone safely equivalent to the mtg metagame. Even at top level, you are recognising patterns to aim for, structures that help and base it on experience of similar lines in your chosen systems. Take Bronstein's book on the kings indian defence as an example - positional similarities leading to quicker grasp of plan. Calculation is not required for every move. To think that people at lower level dont think long over a move would be to prejudge. I have played 4-5 hour matches, was in Glasgow League division 1.
kaynight, read all my stuff on this site and learn where im coming from when i asked you not to troll on it. I dont care about general trolling, just not on the writing I have shared, please. On mtg online I am pretty much a giant troll.
Jul 31, 2014
0
#49
In MtG I played Legacy a few times, each time with my cheap homebrew decks. First time I played really bad monoblack suicide and got my ass kicked really bad. I lost matches to Goblins, Rock and Pikula like s..t and after a bit tougher fight to UW-control too (1:2), I won only vs some kid with monogreen Stompy, where I survived at 1 life two times... Second time I played much better monogreen suspend deck with deathtouch feature and made it to top_8, but I got lucky, because in the final Swiss round my opponent (Affinity) got manascrewed really hard and both games he started with 4 cards.
In both, chess and MtG, my actual problem is traveling. I have a wonderful dog (Staffordhire Bull Terrier) and I can't afford enough time.
Monoblack suicide? Was it a variant on Spanish Inquisition? Love that deck. Used the legacy shell to make a vintage version online. I dont normally use things that way but it was too tempting to pay half life over and over.
Aye, I have a few dark confidant type aggro ones, bitterblossom etc. Both types are fun but storm is kind of vulnerable and harder to pilot than people think.
I only play Storm in Legacy, and mainly in Modern too. It's fun, but it doesn't feel at its best right now (was positioned quite well almost the entire time from when I started in 2011 until about November 2013, when BUG and Miracles started increasing in popularity). In modern it lost the unknown factor after doing well at the last modern PT, especially concerning sb plans (e.g. Moon).
dickless-fck seems to be Ukrainian. 
But aren't Martians considered as smart creatures in human folk?
Built pauper storm and they banned it a week later. Even made commander storm but people just complained, like they do. Did quite well with it in player run ffa tourney in legacy online, won some cash but its a scream in vintage. Online has the 9 specials just released and they really help enforce it when backed up by cabal therapy and stuff but there are so many things that can try to spoil the party like Mishra's workshop decks with sphere of resisitance or others. Recently added time vault (yeah I know) to a confidant deck that runs the usual tutors and a skullclamp draw engine and the time vault makes a nice alternate win condition, since deck runs hidden strings to untap library of alexandria or the vault, etc.
Aug 5, 2014
0
#57
I have always suspected famous red creature Shivan Dragon had a model in the russian boxer from the movie Rocky IV.
Stasis type of decks are equivalent to "slow rolling" in poker and equivalent to Pirc defense for black
Maybe in theory lol, dont doubt it Jion but when I play the Pirc it turns into "omg what have I done, im getting murdered".
What's about Hearthstone? Anybody plays?