Position Analysis

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Snave7

Hi All,

I am currently going through one of FritzTrainer's opening software and was wanting a little advice. I have the 1.d4 A classical repertoire for white by GM Lubomir Ftacnik.  I'm reviewing his Queen's Gambit accepted lines and he made a comment on this position and was wanting to know his justification.  He said that G6 is not a good response for black because it is followed by NxG6.  His explanation ends there.  What good does NxG6 do for white if black does choose to push G6?  Thanks

orangehonda

Well, I have no idea but let's walk it out a few moves to try and get it.

By the way these IQP positions similar to your post demand attacking play.  If you want to follow this repertoire you'll need to know a few basic patterns of attack that come out of this kind of structure.

gorgeous_vulture

orangehonda: 22. ... Bh4 (bishop is protected by the queen) and it's a draw.

 

EDIT: However, apart from that move this is EXACTLY the line that both Fritz and Rybka came up with from that position.  Snave7: FWIW, in positions such as this, where I absolutely cannot see for myself why a particular move is suggested, I plug the position into the computer and play through the permutations. This should be a last resort, however.

gorgeous_vulture

It is a bit odd, though.Would black really be unhappy with a draw from this position? My lowly class D eyes fail to spot any advantage for black

orangehonda
NickYoung5 wrote:

orangehonda: 22. ... Bh4 (bishop is protected by the queen) and it's a draw.

 

EDIT: However, apart from that move this is EXACTLY the line that both Fritz and Rybka came up with from that position.  Snave7: FWIW, in positions such as this, where I absolutely cannot see for myself why a particular move is suggested, I plug the position into the computer and play through the permutations. This should be a last resort, however.


Awesome Smile.

Eww, 22...f5 is an inaccuracy too, 22...Rf7 looks better.  White still looks good though :)

Hmm, yeah I just missed 22...Bh4.  Why not just 23.g3 though, oh maybe just 23...Rc7 and white's already lost a lot.  Online at least, I'd probably go for 23.Qh6+ 24.Rxh4 with a scary attack Surprised -- doesn't surprise me though that a computer finds a defense instantly heh.

orangehonda

To be honest I avoid these positions because I never did work on attacking.  If my pieces are all set up like a puzzle I don't mind calculating, but if I have to positionally set up  my attack I get lost.

Or maybe it's just I don't know these IQP positions.

In any case I definitely recommend looking at games with similar structure to absorb a few attacking ideas (there are at least 2-3 different basic ideas for this structure).  I never have played d4... so I don't know what this is called lol -- but it's the same structure as a panov-botvinnik attack out of the caro I know that much :)  Check out games like these for example http://www.chessgames.com/perl/chessopening?eco=b14

gorgeous_vulture

Some very basic advice from my coach on IQP positions: keep as many pieces on the board as possible. If you trade off pieces you will not be able to advance the pawn. He also advises me to avoid them, if possible - not because there's anything inherently wrong with such positions but that they don't suit my game (or what passes for it!)

orangehonda

They don't suit me either really.  I like the opposite kind where trading pieces hurts my opponent because my endgame chances are better heh.  If I'm pretty much forced to play actively for an attack I don't like it.

draconlord

22...Bh4

23.Qxe6

 

Traded knight for 4 pawns, and also the pawn push looks darn scary. 

Also, 23.g3, which looks pretty good to me.

Snave7

Hey, thanks for the input.  That actually sheds a little more light on the situation.

And I don't have a program to plug the position into, that will probably be the next item to buy.

Thanks Again

Snave7
draconlord wrote:

22...Bh4

23.Qxe6

 

Traded knight for 4 pawns, and also the pawn push looks darn scary. 

Also, 23.g3, which looks pretty good to me.


I don't know if taking the pawn on e6 is good, because it could be followed by the knight to F4, forking the queen and rook.  Edit: I take it back, It might work. Followed by Qh7+, then after Kf8, capture the bishop.  Still going over the options you guys suggested.

gorgeous_vulture
draconlord wrote:

22...Bh4

23.Qxe6

 

Traded knight for 4 pawns, and also the pawn push looks darn scary. 

Also, 23.g3, which looks pretty good to me.


The trouble with g3, I think, is that black might play 23. g3 Rc7 (for example), 24. Rxh4+ Qxh4 25. gxh4 Rg8, pinning the white queen.

Dragec
Snave, there are several strong free chess programs , so you might want to try some of them.
gorgeous_vulture

It does still beg the question of why the author thought g6 was bad for black though. Is f5 really any better, or did the author just assume white would be able to force a win after Nxg6 and not play through all the lines?

orangehonda
Fezzik wrote:

What's wrong with 23.Qh6 Kg8 Rh4 threatening mates? (I have cold, so the question is real and not rhetorical.)


Yeah, that's the attacking idea I would have gone for in a real game (probably).  It's funny how computers can decide so early (and usually correctly) if something is safe or not.

orangehonda
NickYoung5 wrote:

It does still beg the question of why the author thought g6 was bad for black though. Is f5 really any better, or did the author just assume white would be able to force a win after Nxg6 and not play through all the lines?


Like Fezzik says -- I certainly would rather be white here, defense is harder to play than offense over the board, and the complications that arise with the passers should be too unclear for most human's tastes.  If it were the only way for black to equalize, then it would be forced.  Otherwise, he really should look for something else.

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