Pre-Staunton chess sets: 17th and 18th cent photos and info

I am intrested in learning more about what types of chess sets were in use in Colonial America and England prior to the introduction of the Staunton set.  Can anyone point me the direction of a web site or book that deals with historical chess sets of the 17th and 18th cent. Photos would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks

Bruce

Here ya go:

http://www.tykroll.com/chess/index.html

Check out:

http://www.chessantiques.com/

Huh... I'm flattered, Crazychessplaya, but I don't think I have anything from before the 19th century. I mean of course I have: http://www.tykroll.com/chess/charlemagne.html , and: http://www.tykroll.com/chess/isleoflewis.html , and sometimes I like to think: http://www.tykroll.com/chess/renaissance.html might be that old because the marks on the bases look like it it could have been turned on a pole arm lathe, but it's really probably not that old.

Here are some sets generally regarded as 18th century:

A "Washington" set from the Rochford collection: http://ciaranr.fatcow.com/rochford_collection/secbig/wash_w6.html

You see the urn-shape in the pawn and Bishop, the very wide angle of the mitre in the Bishop, wider than 19th century Bishops (like this one of mine: http://www.tykroll.com/chess/bcorn/bcorn12.JPG ) and also (speaking of the Bishop) the mitres are cut after the dying in the 18th century so the black Bishop pops the white mitre inside... the same is true for the parapits on the rook, and there is brickwork on the rook; it's even colored in on the white site. Most notably the flat knight head is very different from what you see in 19th century English sets.

Here's another from the Crumiller collection: http://www.crumiller.com/chess/chess_pages/english/Washington_set.htm

And here are a few more of that aren't exactly Washington-style, but are English 18th century:

http://ciaranr.fatcow.com/rochford_collection/secbig/Wash07_w6.html

http://ciaranr.fatcow.com/rochford_collection/secbig/ve_eng.html

http://ciaranr.fatcow.com/rochford_collection/secbig/Eng18c.html

http://ciaranr.fatcow.com/rochford_collection/secbig/IvHorn.html (this one looks to me like it might be earlier than the others... the Bishop's mitre is not only wide but the edges are bent outward like the illustrations in some very early books.)

http://www.crumiller.com/chess/chess_pages/english/Old_English_ivory_set.htm

http://www.crumiller.com/chess/chess_pages/english/English18thCenturySet.htm

http://www.crumiller.com/chess/chess_pages/english/OldEnglishWoodenSet.htm (you can see the opposite color inside the wide mitre even on some of the wooden sets, and of course the urn-shapes which can get wider in wood and ivory than they can in bone.)

... and I don't know of any common style of 17th century English set... there are a few particular sets that are known to be from the period but none that are photographed online come to mind. I recommend Gareth Williams' "Master Pieces" for further study... there's a lot of really bad information in a lot of even newly published books on antique chess sets, but the Williams is quite good, also anthing by Michael Mark.

and this post is getting long, but we have many other countries to cover... to be continued...

You have this sort of thing, of course:

http://ciaranr.fatcow.com/rochford_collection/secbig/Dieppe_ivory.html (France)

http://ciaranr.fatcow.com/rochford_collection/secbig/bust_combo.html (Dermot says Italy 18th century; I can't tell by looking; and I can't tell if my similar "bust" set is that old either, but it might be.)

http://ciaranr.fatcow.com/rochford_collection/secbig/Kol_large.html (Russia, these are generally regarded as 18th century... I think Jon has a few good ones too: http://www.crumiller.com/chess/chess_pages/other/AntiqueRussianKholmogorySet.htm )

http://www.crumiller.com/chess/chess_pages/german/GermanGeislingenBoneBustSet.htm (Germany)

ext... there are lots of figural sets from the 18th century or even earlier.

and while we're not on any parituclar country... there are some sets that no one's quite sure about:

I think "Spanish Pulpit" sets like these:

http://www.crumiller.com/chess/chess_pages/other/Pulpit-TypeSet.htm

http://www.crumiller.com/chess/chess_pages/other/PulpitSet.htm

are probably 18th century and English... look at how similar that first, simpler one is to the sets known to be English and 18th century I started with.

There are a lot of (mostly old) books that say those sets are Spanish, but it's unlikely.

Here's a set that is Spanish and possibly older than the 18th century:

http://www.crumiller.com/chess/chess_pages/other/SpanishBonePlayingSet.htm

You get non-figural sets that old and they look like the illustrations in the Selenus book or other old paintings and illustrations from 15th-17th centuries.

But this has gotten pretty disorganized... to be continued...

Ok, back to seperating by country... France is another big one (also French sets were just as popular as English were used in Colonial America (think Benjamin Franklin)):

The so called "Lyon" set, which a Regence set with bone in it is often regarded as 18th century:

http://www.crumiller.com/chess/chess_pages/french/LyonBoneSet.htm

http://ciaranr.fatcow.com/rochford_collection/secbig/Helmet.html (though Dermot says his is 19th century, and it might be... this is not an exact science)

This French set is agreed to be 18th century by pretty much everybody, though: http://ciaranr.fatcow.com/rochford_collection/secbig/Encyc.html

You can see how these aren't exactly like 19th and 20th century Regence sets (like the ones in my collection, and it's not just the fluting in the wooden on or the bone bits in the "lyon" sets that make the differnce. The actual profile of the pieces is different, and not in a uniform way. It's like the style became more uniform as time went on; the earlier sets have more variation between them... but in general the "bulbous" (Keats' word) parts are more "squat" (my word, lol.)

Meanwhile in Germany we have early Selenus:

http://www.crumiller.com/chess/chess_pages/german/GeislingenSelenusTypeSet.htm

That sort of thing is simlier that what you'd usually think of as a Selenus set and the earlier you get the more they look like the illustrations in the actual Selenus book.

But there are fancier Selenuses that are regarded as  18th century, like this set: http://www.crumiller.com/chess/chess_pages/german/GermanIvorySet.htm They look a little differerent and have weird double headed knights. Not every set wiht the double headed knight is 18th century... IMO it's usually the uglier ones oddly enough. They have a different look to them, too boxy in certain parts, not so "flower"y as the later Selenuses.

still near Germany... there's this set that is generally regarded as Dutch, but might very well be German, which is also generally regarded as 18th century:

Here it is without figures: http://www.bonhams.com/auctions/17975/lot/134/

and here it is in Jon's collection with figures: http://www.crumiller.com/chess/chess_pages/other/Dutch18thCenturyBoneSet.htm

and that's probably enough for central Europe.

I was going to go into India and Asia, but I've commented a lot, I know a lot less about Indian and Asian sets that European, and I just looked at your original question, Bruce, and realized you didn't ask about them, so I'll shut up now. Goodngiht.

Ty

wait one more, sorry. Ireland. Actually the only style of antique chess set Ireland is famous for is generally regarded as 18th century: https://www.google.com/search?hl=en&safe=off&q=irish%20killarney%20chess%20set&psj=1&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.r_qf.&bpcl=37189454&biw=1152&bih=736&um=1&ie=UTF-8&tbm=isch&source=og&sa=N&tab=wi&ei=zp6YUJz5Dqy6yAG15oGYBw