Punishing early queens.

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Icouldabeenachampion

Hi all, I have played a few games recently where my opposition has brought out his queen after just 3 or 4 moves. I tend to just keep to my plan, if possible, and have done OK with wins and draws - a few losses too. But when this happens I often think of the times I have heard top players say, in banter and such like say "now how can I punish him for bringing out his queen". I must admit I have tried but end up with misplaced pieces, so I have stopped over-reacting. Is this something that only the best players can do, being able to think so many moves ahead, or is there a tactic/strategy that I am unaware of. I am only about 1200 elo so I expect that has something to do with my failure to punish. Anyone else have this as an issue or problem ?.

cyboo
Why doesn’t the queen after Rb1 play Qxa3?
pjr2468
The trapping move is surely Na4?
Farm_Hand

It's a common mistake for new players to expect the punishment to come quickly or early in the game.

The reward of playing a good opening is that you get a good middlegame. Rarely will your opponent play so badly that you can win material or checkmate during the first 15 moves.

I recently had an unrated game that went like this (I don't remember the exact moves after move 8) but notice how I "punish" my opponent's queen.

 

It had no threat so I just ignore it!

Remember the goal isn't to chase the queen, the goal is to develop and castle. When the queen comes out early, find what your opponent's threat is, and then try to develop and guard against that threat at the same time. If there is no threat then just ignore their move and keep developing.

 

Lets look at this game

 

Daniel1115

The problem with an early queen is that it will often becoming a liability. Usually it allows the other player. to develop with tempo, advance pawns with tempo or improve pieces with tempo. The queen my also blocck the optimal squares for piece development. The only serious opening that advocates for the queen to come out early is the Scandinavian. It is important to keep in mind that once attacked the queen goes to a5 or d8(main moves). The queen is positioned out of the action (or on the starting square) to prevent the stuff I explained earlier.

Alltheusernamestaken

Black is fine here, u cant always punish it

Djejdudhbdj
Revised my previous post, hope this helps you out!!

 

Icouldabeenachampion

Thanks for all the stuff and examples. I guess its always obvious when you have the answer ! It seems to me that the first rule is do not sacrifice development over punishment, because if the development is sound punishment will follow.

Icouldabeenachampion

p.s. Guys apropos of this topic see Perez Candelario (2590) vs. Rizouk (2445) at Bitumi yesterday.

Icouldabeenachampion
Kemp7 wrote:
Revised my previous post, hope this helps you out!!

 

Yep, thanks

osdeving

early queen allow develop moves with time gain. after 1.e4 d5 2.exd5 Qxd5 3.Nc3 <- the Knight develop with time gain. After 1.e4 e5 2.Bc4 <- after, black gain time with d5.
If you chase the oponent queen by moving two times the same piece you dont gain time... 

osdeving
Alltheusernamestaken escreveu:

Black is fine here, u cant always punish it

The correct sentence, i think, is: "u cant always punish it by gain  a huge advantage". White is better, more space, lead in development, free development, etc.. Bd2 was not too good, the bishop shoud move again, but c6 and Qd4-a5-c7 was not good too... White have a d4 pawn and king knight/bishop are free to develop, and castle is easy. black should move e6 to develop the bishop and the queen-knight + queen-bishop have just d7 (if Nd7 block bishop, for example).

The good way to think about opening  is:  Look at postion from an aesthetic (harmony) point of view. Do only 'ugly' moves if they are forced (due to some attack). Nimzovitch in "My System" explains openings better than many books specific to openings. In the book we find solutions to not interrupt harmony / aesthetics.

Alltheusernamestaken
osdeving wrote:
Alltheusernamestaken escreveu:

Black is fine here, u cant always punish it

The correct sentence, i think, is: "u cant always punish it by gain  a huge advantage". White is better, more space, lead in development, free development, etc.. Bd2 was not too good, the bishop shoud move again, but c6 and Qd4-a5-c7 was not good too... White have a d4 pawn and king knight/bishop are free to develop, and castle is easy. black should move e6 to develop the bishop and the queen-knight + queen-bishop have just d7 (if Nd7 block bishop, for example).

The good way to think about opening  is:  Look at postion from an aesthetic (harmony) point of view. Do only 'ugly' moves if they are forced (due to some attack). Nimzovitch in "My System" explains openings better than many books specific to openings. In the book we find solutions to not interrupt harmony / aesthetics.

White is more active and has a small edge but black is solid and more flexible. This example is better:

 

osdeving
Alltheusernamestaken escreveu:
osdeving wrote:
Alltheusernamestaken escreveu:

Black is fine here, u cant always punish it

The correct sentence, i think, is: "u cant always punish it by gain  a huge advantage". White is better, more space, lead in development, free development, etc.. Bd2 was not too good, the bishop shoud move again, but c6 and Qd4-a5-c7 was not good too... White have a d4 pawn and king knight/bishop are free to develop, and castle is easy. black should move e6 to develop the bishop and the queen-knight + queen-bishop have just d7 (if Nd7 block bishop, for example).

The good way to think about opening  is:  Look at postion from an aesthetic (harmony) point of view. Do only 'ugly' moves if they are forced (due to some attack). Nimzovitch in "My System" explains openings better than many books specific to openings. In the book we find solutions to not interrupt harmony / aesthetics.

White is more active and has a small edge but black is solid and more flexible. This example is better:

 

No Be3, Nb5, follow Qb6 then c4, with c4-d4 pawns. Black should play c6 again and d7 square is again disputed by bishop and knight.
Openings like scandinavian or caro-kan, or other with early b6-Bb7, white need 'punish' with moves like 'Nb5' instead Be3. Otherwise black is not just fine, but better!

At opening black want two things.
1. find good square to all pieces.
2.make the pawn-break to liberty the natural cramped position.

after 1.e4 black need find a square to knights, bishops, make castle and play c5 (caro-kan, french, scandinavian, etc..) or d5 (italian, sicilian!?, etc..).. Some openings black play f5.

for us, poor mortals, it is not important... for us poor mortals, this is not very important. Someone could play Nc6, Nb8, Nc6, Nb8  without being punished and win the game after playing good moves...