Q: which ratings would you beat if you recieve an extra P/K/B/R/Q?

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ElKitch

Im curious what ratings people think they can beat when they recieve an extra piece (or opponent loses one) at the start of the game. The extra piece can be a p, K, B, R or a Q. Time controls/gametype: the time control you like to play on :)
 

Planning to check if ratingvalues for pieces can be derived by people's estimates. Important for this is to also post your own rating for the gametype you want.


My current rating:
Estimated rating that I expect to beat with +1 ...
Pawn:
Knight:
Bisshop:
Rook:
Queen: 


 

When I fill this in it would be:

My current rating: 1082 (blitz)
Estimated rating that I expect to beat with +1 ...
Pawn: 1150
Knight: 1200
Bisshop: 1200
Rook: 1300
Queen: 1400 

waffllemaster

Just a guess...

pawn ~100 points
knight/bishop 300-400 points
Rook 500-700 points
Queen 600-1000 points

Can't quite imagine losing to anyone up a queen, but lets say they were a titled player and created enough chaos I could conceivably get mated/lose a lot of material, so I gave a wide range of ratings.

ponz111

A lot--a whole lot depends on the type of game. At Correspondence Chess--the way it is played today-- there is less than a pawn difference between say the top 3 players in the USA and the World Champ. 

ElKitch
waffllemaster (sort of) wrote:

Current rating: 1941 (bullet)
Estimated rating that I expect to beat with +1 ...
Pawn: 2041
Knight: 2241-2341
Bisshop:  2241-2341 
Rook: 2441- 2641
Queen: 2541-2941

Ive entered the values to your current ranking. Would love to see a game between someone of your rating and Magnus Carlsen or Anand/Geldoff with a queen difference. How would they cope with that? We'd see the the deepest frowns EVER! :P 

 

@Ponz111: you may estimate it for yourself, playing your favorite type of game

waffllemaster

Heh, just taking into account the year off of tournament play, I would guess 1900 FIDE > wafflemaster :p

It's an interesting thought though, if I played a G/90 game vs Magnus where he spotted me a queen, who should be more embarrassed with a loss?

browni3141

It depends on the time control. I'll pick CC since Extra stuff gives the greatest advantage. +Q I am fairly certain that I could easily beat anybody every time. +R I think I could beat Houdini most of the time, but a master would be harder I think because they would try to make things chaotic. I still think I could beat any player more than half the time +R. I think I could beat anybody with an extra piece, but I'm not confident that I could win a majority of the games. Maybe I'd expect to be even with someone about 2500 FIDE? I'm really not sure about a pawn, becuase unlike other chessmen, pawns don't have a large positional influence in the middlegame. A pawn would most likely have to be converted in the endgame. The problem with pawn odds though is that they will open lines for the opponent's pieces, giving them very slight compensation for their missing pawn. I guess that's why they usually use the f-pawn. I would guess a pawn would be worth 100-150 points for me.

I'd be willing to defend my claim that I can beat anybody with Q, R odds. I'd also be willing to try and defeat anyone takning minor piece odds. Remember that I am reffering to serious CC.

skilledwolf

Well I beat Chessmaster with queen odds in a 15 minute game and I'm rated around 1350. I'd say I could beat a 2000 player with rook odds and a 1600 player with piece odds. A pawn doesn't make much of a difference to me.

ElKitch
waffllemaster wrote:

It's an interesting thought though, if I played a G/90 game vs Magnus where he spotted me a queen, who should be more embarrassed with a loss?

Well if you ask me both shouldn't be embarrassed. Both accept that there is a difference in skill, and therefore one player gets an advantage. The side that wins has managed to overcome a difference in material or (the other player) a difference in skill. 

We all agree that getting an extra piece always mean that you can beat a player with higher rating. Therefore an extra piece has some kind of rating value, even when that ratingvalue fluctuates because of timecontrols, actual use of piece and more.

So what I am curious about is: what ratingincrease does the player experience when the get that extra piece? Would it be possible to derive rough values with the estimates of people?

AndyClifton

I'd be pretty damn depressed if I found out that anybody could spot me a queen. Frown

ElKitch

In carom ("pool with no pockets") competition in Holland this system is very common! A bad player has to shoot 25 caroms, and the good player something relative with his skill to this, say.. 42 caroms. When you play better than expected by the ratings, you will increase in rating. That is what makes it challenging, I think. 

You are rated high, and according to wikipedia: the higher a player is rated, the more a piece odd is worth in rating. Thats because 'a bigger chance for blunders' decreases the value of a piece. Fast time controls and low rated players increase the chance of blunders, so they devaluate the ratings. Slow time controls and high rated players make pieces more valuable. Chances indeed ar that noone can beat you -long term- with queen odds! 

AndyClifton
ElKitch wrote:

Chances indeed ar that noone can beat you -long term- with queen odds! 

How very reassuring... Undecided

ponz111

I am very much a "has been" but I am absolutely certain I would win against anyone with N odds or two pawns odds in correspondence.   

ElKitch
browni3141 wrote:

I'd be willing to defend my claim that I can beat anybody with Q, R odds. I'd also be willing to try and defeat anyone takning minor piece odds. Remember that I am reffering to serious CC.

I'd like to play you with queen odds, see if I make it. Other way around I cant offer Im afraid :)

ponz111

Estragon, you would terrribly beat the best chess player in the world if you were given either N or B odds.

Even at two pawn odds you would do this...

ElKitch

Any people estimating what rating they beat with odds are very welcome!

So copy paste this en fill in what ratings you can beat:


My current rating:
Estimated rating that I expect to beat with +1 ...
Pawn:
Knight:
Bisshop:
Rook:
Queen: 


madhacker

I'd like to think I could beat anyone, human or silicon, with a piece odds in a long game. It's just too big a loss, a whole piece. All you would have to do is play sensibly and not take risks.

ohsnapzbrah

I'm 1650 IRL.

Pawn- 1800

Knight/Bishop- 2100

Rook- 2200

Queen- 2500

King- Everyone in the world!

I just don't think rook odds are that advantagous for the average player just because it can be so cumbersome to get them in play in the opening/middlegame. 

waffllemaster
madhacker wrote:

I'd like to think I could beat anyone, human or silicon, with a piece odds in a long game. It's just too big a loss, a whole piece. All you would have to do is play sensibly and not take risks.

I believe a master played a match vs Rybka with knight odds.  I think he won the match but he didn't win every game :p

madhacker

Well I've got to give it a go I suppose now haven't I... if I get round to it I'll post the game.

ElKitch

My current rating:
Estimated rating that I expect to beat with +1 ...
Pawn:
Knight/bisshop:
Rook:
Queen: 


People's estimates are still appreciated! Also from lower rated players! Best would be to copy-paste the above list but other answers help as well.

And if you are a 2000-ish player: you may beat everyone with a queen, but what rating can you handle with pawn-odds?

Thanks! :)