Your supposed to make your move, offer the draw, and hit the clock. It's always best to be very clear your offering a draw and offering your hand could be taken as a resignation, especially if you haven't made a move.
Since you and your opponent did not agree on what happened, the TD would have been correct on continuing the game from that position at the time of the draw offer; it's not clear if that was the position that was reset or not from your description.
Your supposed to make your move, offer the draw, and hit the clock. It's always best to be very clear your offering a draw and offering your hand could be taken as a resignation, especially if you haven't made a move.
Since you and your opponent did not agree on what happened, the TD would have been correct on continuing the game from that position at the time of the draw offer; it's not clear if that was the position that was reset or not from your description.
Yeah, that's what I thought too, and it was my move at the time I offered a draw, but I was not thinking about proper etiquette at the moment. Thanks!
++ Did you or your opponent mark the draw offer on the score sheet?
8.1.5
Both players must record the offer of a draw on the scoresheet with a symbol (=).
++ Did you and your opponent indicate the result on the score sheets and sign?
8.7
At the conclusion of the game both players shall indicate the result of the game by signing both scoresheets or approve the result on their electronic scoresheets.
Even if incorrect, this result shall stand, unless the arbiter decides otherwise.
https://handbook.fide.com/chapter/E012018
++ Did you or your opponent mark the draw offer on the score sheet?
8.1.5
Both players must record the offer of a draw on the scoresheet with a symbol (=).
++ Did you and your opponent indicate the result on the score sheets and sign?
8.7
At the conclusion of the game both players shall indicate the result of the game by signing both scoresheets or approve the result on their electronic scoresheets.
Even if incorrect, this result shall stand, unless the arbiter decides otherwise.
Not pertinent for a US Chess rated game, unless it was also FIDE rated.
Wait, when?
Your supposed to make your move, offer the draw, and hit the clock. It's always best to be very clear your offering a draw and offering your hand could be taken as a resignation, especially if you haven't made a move.
Since you and your opponent did not agree on what happened, the TD would have been correct on continuing the game from that position at the time of the draw offer; it's not clear if that was the position that was reset or not from your description.
Yeah, that's what I thought too, and it was my move at the time I offered a draw, but I was not thinking about proper etiquette at the moment. Thanks!
I agree with Martin. It's not so much the lack of etiquette in itself that is the problem. But it also protects you, since once you have correctly offered a draw, it is for your opponent to decline or to shake hands.
Since there was a misunderstanding, I believe it is correct to continue playing.
@5
"Not pertinent for a US Chess rated game, unless it was also FIDE rated."
++ So in USCF players are not required to note draw offers on their score sheet and are not required to sign score sheets?
@5
"Not pertinent for a US Chess rated game, unless it was also FIDE rated."
++ So in USCF players are not required to note draw offers on their score sheet and are not required to sign score sheets?
No, it's not required to do either of those things. Signing is a good idea, since that would indicate both players agreed to the results listed.
@9
"No, it's not required to do either of those things." ++ Strange...
@8 Hi, The fundamental thing is, that it does not matter if specific rules are the same or not. One simply does not offer up a different rule book, other than the one in question.
Your supposed to make your move, offer the draw, and hit the clock. It's always best to be very clear your offering a draw and offering your hand could be taken as a resignation, especially if you haven't made a move.
Since you and your opponent did not agree on what happened, the TD would have been correct on continuing the game from that position at the time of the draw offer; it's not clear if that was the position that was reset or not from your description.
Yeah, that's what I thought too, and it was my move at the time I offered a draw, but I was not thinking about proper etiquette at the moment. Thanks!
It's more about "procedure" rather than etiquette. I understand that you did not want to disturb other players by using a hushed tone but here is a case where I'd rather have you be a little loud and offer the draw. I'm a TD and people have to learn the right things to do.
Hello,
I have recently played in a local tournament with a rated 25+5 time control and just over ten players - a just-for-fun-and-experience setting.
In the last game, I ended up in an endgame position which I believed was drawn at the time, as I had only about 30 seconds remaining on my clock.
Out of pure hope, I offered a draw, and to my surprise, he accepted. I had suggested this draw in a hushed, but audible way so as not to disturb the other players. I had also reached out with a hand ready for a handshake.
However, a few seconds later, the TD came over and asked my opponent whether or not he heard me ask for a draw. My opponent said no, and that he believed I had resigned. We then reset the position from a picture the TD took during the game and I lost mainly due to a lack of time.
However, due to the mix-up, the TD said that he would mark the result as a win for my opponent but contact a more experienced TD/Official in order to verify that this is what was stated in the rulebook about auditory/language issues. I understand that my taking the draw here is a pretty mean move and I have no problem simply giving my opponent the win, but I didn't say this at the tournament for whatever reason.
I would like to ask whether or not anyone knows what the outcome is to be here just to get a result before the TD does so as I am slightly intrigued and interested.
Putting your hand out like that can almost be viewed as a violation. It is a major distraction to your opponent.
Technically, you are allowed to offer a draw any time while your clock is running. If I am your opponent, and I just made my 34th move (Let's say I have Black), Once I hit my clock, and it is your 35th move, you can offer a draw immediately if you like, but it is not best practice because it is BINDING until I make my 35th move. I am under ZERO obligation to even respond at all, and it is still binding until I make my move. I can, and have, sit for over 30 minutes thinking about the position, and then proceed to accept the draw. You better not have your hand over the board while I am doing that.
But because it is binding, you are best off doing what Martin mentioned. Make your move, verbally offer the draw, and then Hi the clock, and DO NOT hold your hand out. He is not obligated to respond in any time limit, and if he is Declining, he does not have to say it verbally, he can simply make his move.
While legal, the reason you do not want to offer the draw is at the start of your move, you think you are worse, so you offer, I force you to make your move before I decide, and now you realize you have a win. Too bad! Offer is binding until I make my move!
On the flip side, let's say that you make the offer, and I note on the scores heel that White offered a draw on move 35, I can force you to play your 35th move, and let's say I know the Rook Sacrifice, 35.Rxg7+, wins for White while all other moves lose. You offer immediately. I ignore you, but I already know what my answer will be. If you play 35.Rxg7+, I accept the offer. If you play any other move, I decline!
So like Martin said, while some other ways are technically legal, BEST PRACTICE is:
1) Make your move
2) Verbally offer the draw
3) Hit the clock
4) Keep your hands wherever they were the rest of the game, whether covering your cheeks, on the table, in your lap, whatever, but DO NOT put a hand over the board!
Abruptly putting your hand out as if to shake usually signals resignation.
If the position is a dead draw and both players have been shuffling, putting the hand out as if to force them to accept a draw is a bit rude.
If there really was a repetition (or some other drawing event), then stop the clock and declare the game is drawn (don't offer a draw because that's different and they can decline).
(Others already covered how to properly ask for a draw.)
what kind of language is this
Hello
what kind of language is this
Could be English.
I have seen a lot of kids offer draws, usually incorrectly in other ways (most often before they have moved), and extend their hand while doing so.
Extending your hand before the draw is accepted is really bad form, and leads to problems such as in this thread.
I wish more people would learn the correct way to offer draws.
I wish I could put a link to the USCF rule about how to offer a draw. But sadly I cannot due to the ongoing PATHETIC situation of the USCF not putting the rules of chess online.
Hello,
I have recently played in a local tournament with a rated 25+5 time control and just over ten players - a just-for-fun-and-experience setting.
In the last game, I ended up in an endgame position which I believed was drawn at the time, as I had only about 30 seconds remaining on my clock.
Out of pure hope, I offered a draw, and to my surprise, he accepted. I had suggested this draw in a hushed, but audible way so as not to disturb the other players. I had also reached out with a hand ready for a handshake.
However, a few seconds later, the TD came over and asked my opponent whether or not he heard me ask for a draw. My opponent said no, and that he believed I had resigned. We then reset the position from a picture the TD took during the game and I lost mainly due to a lack of time.
However, due to the mix-up, the TD said that he would mark the result as a win for my opponent but contact a more experienced TD/Official in order to verify that this is what was stated in the rulebook about auditory/language issues. I understand that my taking the draw here is a pretty mean move and I have no problem simply giving my opponent the win, but I didn't say this at the tournament for whatever reason.
I would like to ask whether or not anyone knows what the outcome is to be here just to get a result before the TD does so as I am slightly intrigued and interested.