Question about getting a FIDE Rating

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marqumax
People used to say you need to play 20 FIDE Rated games to get a rating, but I somehow got it after only about 10 games
Martin_Stahl
marqumax wrote:
People used to say you need to play 20 FIDE Rated games to get a rating, but I somehow got it after only about 10 games

 

The rules change occasionally. Currentlly is 5 games against players with ratings.

eric0022
B1ZMARK wrote:
Martin_Stahl wrote:

From https://handbook.fide.com/chapter/B022022

7.1 On the first day of each month, FIDE shall prepare a list which incorporates all rated play during the rating period into the previous list. This shall be done using the rating system formula.

and

7.1.4 A rating for a player new to the list shall be published when it is based on 5 games against rated opponents. This need not be met in one tournament. Results from other tournaments played within consecutive rating periods of not more than 26 months are pooled to obtain the initial rating. The rating must be at least 1000.

 

You don't have enough games to get rated.

I have seven rated games, and I don't think the combined performance is bad enough to be below 1000, so I guess I'm waiting until the end of the month

 

I suspect that your opponents must be rated at the commencement of the game. I remembered that I had a lot of unrated opponents in my rated tournaments several years ago and I emerged with a zero FIDE rating.

 

EDIT: I didn't realise that Martin's comment in the quote had the relevant answer!

PawnTsunami
B1ZMARK wrote:

So I recently played in a four round FIDE rated tournament. I won two (as black) and lost two (as white). Three were FIDE rated, 1400 (win), 1800 (win), 2310 (loss) and my other loss was to an opponent who was not FIDE rated.

The tournament has been rated already (by that I mean I can see my post event rating) but when I click on my FIDE profile it says that I'm still "unrated".

 

I don't think my performance was bad (I mean, my post event uscf rating didn't change at all). And I do have some fide rated games - the many losses were from the 2021 chicago open (I performed 2/7)

 

So at this point I'm not sure why I can't see my FIDE rating. Does it update later or something?

Unlike USCF, FIDE does not show the "live" ratings so you have to wait until the next time it publishes ratings to see it on your profile.  That usually happens at the start of each month if I remember correctly.

Also, I don't think FIDE will give you a rating until you've won or drawn at least 1 game, so if you had FIDE rated games that were all losses, you would remain unrated.  That is different from USCF which will provide you a provisional rating that is 400 points below your lowest opponent if you had all losses.

PawnTsunami
B1ZMARK wrote:
chaotikitat wrote:

Possibly this ?
“Matches in which one player is unrated shall not be rated.”

I only read about two pages and didn't see that

In that case, though, it means a new player will never be FIDE rated. Since he is unrated.

That is just with matches, not single games in a tournament.  USCF does the same thing (you cannot have a match between players that are unrated or have a provisional rating).  This is to avoid rating manipulations.

Martin_Stahl
PawnTsunami wrote:
B1ZMARK wrote:
chaotikitat wrote:

Possibly this ?
“Matches in which one player is unrated shall not be rated.”

I only read about two pages and didn't see that

In that case, though, it means a new player will never be FIDE rated. Since he is unrated.

That is just with matches, not single games in a tournament.  USCF does the same thing (you cannot have a match between players that are unrated or have a provisional rating).  This is to avoid rating manipulations.

 

No, it also means tournament games. If you play a FIDE rated game against someone that does not have an FIDE rating at the time of the event, the game will not be rated. An unrated player has to face at least 5 rated players and score at least 0.5 to get rated.

PawnTsunami
Martin_Stahl wrote:

No, it means tournament games. If you play a FIDE rated game against someone that does not have an FIDE rating at the time of the event, the game will not be rated. An unrated player has to face at least 5 rated players and score at least 0.5 to get rated.

Section 6 (where the quote comes from) is not referring to that.  It is referring to matches.  Section 6.2 makes that very clear when it is talking about not rating games after a match has already been won (i.e. in a best of 10 game match, once a player has reached 5.5, the match is won, so any games after that would not be rated).

Yes, the 5 rated players and score at least a 1 draw against one of them is required for a rating - but that is not match.  You cannot have a match with an unrated player, period.  In USCF, you cannot have a match with an unrated or provisionally rated player.

Martin_Stahl
PawnTsunami wrote:

Section 6 (where the quote comes from) is not referring to that.  It is referring to matches.  Section 6.2 makes that very clear when it is talking about not rating games after a match has already been won (i.e. in a best of 10 game match, once a player has reached 5.5, the match is won, so any games after that would not be rated).

Yes, the 5 rated players and score at least a 1 draw against one of them is required for a rating - but that is not match.  You cannot have a match with an unrated player, period.  In USCF, you cannot have a match with an unrated or provisionally rated player.

 

The regulations also say games against unrated players don't count.

7.1.4 A rating for a player new to the list shall be published when it is based on 5 games against rated opponents. ....

The games against unrated players do not count towards the calculations. So yes, your quote and reply was about matches, but it holds true for tournament games as were against unrated players as well.

 

I didn't say anything about US Chess

Martin_Stahl

While I haven't played in a FIDE rated section in a while, I've never received a rating because only a couple of my games were against FIDE rated players at the time I played them, so those games don't count, even though they have me listed with 6 games:

PawnTsunami
Martin_Stahl wrote:

The regulations also say games against unrated players don't count.

7.1.4 A rating for a player new to the list shall be published when it is based on 5 games against rated opponents. ....

The games against unrated players do not count towards the calculations. So yes, your quote and reply was about matches, but it holds true for tournament games as were against unrated players as well.

 

I didn't say anything about US Chess

Agreed.  I wasn't disputing that - I was simply answering the question about matches (which do not apply to the OP's question).  I added in the USCF portion for completeness (other federations have similar rules).

As an intellectual exercise, section 7.1 has always been interesting.  Suppose you have an unrated player (0 games played) playing in a large swiss event (say, the Grand Swiss) and is paired with a GM in the first 4 rounds and wins all of those games and then withdraws.  Despite a ~2900 performance rating, he would remain unrated in FIDE until he played another game and all the GMs that lost to him would not lose any rating points (as the games would remain unrated).

alphaous
Martin_Stahl wrote:

From https://handbook.fide.com/chapter/B022022

7.1 On the first day of each month, FIDE shall prepare a list which incorporates all rated play during the rating period into the previous list. This shall be done using the rating system formula.

and

7.1.4 A rating for a player new to the list shall be published when it is based on 5 games against rated opponents. This need not be met in one tournament. Results from other tournaments played within consecutive rating periods of not more than 26 months are pooled to obtain the initial rating. The rating must be at least 1000.

 

Funny, I had heard that it had to have been in one tournament. So are you saying that I was misinformed? If so, that is a massive relief, as it will likely make it easier for me to get a FIDE rating.

PawnTsunami
alphaous wrote:

Funny, I had heard that it had to have been in one tournament. So are you saying that I was misinformed? If so, that is a massive relief, as it will likely make it easier for me to get a FIDE rating.

It is usually easier to get in a single tournament, but the requirements are just 5 rated opponents where you score at least 1 draw and your rating must be above 1000.  So if you were to play 5 1100s and score 0.5/5, you still would not have a rating because it would be too low.