Rating difference blitz vs bullet

Hi,

So the question is, why bullet vs blitz rating are so different. For example, my blitz is 1100+ and bullet 800. I can understand such difference in bullet vs classic or rapid, obviously due to time range the player is simply having time to calculate more variations and to perform better.

However judging by myself playing 3 min or 5 min vs 2+1 isnt such a big difference. Why the rating is 300 different. 

Is just me, or its a common gap to other players the ranking in blitz and bullet.

Some players are rated +300 in bullet than their blitz and rapid rating. Its just that few are good at spotting tactical opportunities fast and can move fast on board but most commit lot of blunders and mistakes when they play fast games as they have less time to think. So most players have their bullet rating less than their blitz and rapid.

right, however this should mean then that all players have a weaker rating at bullet compared to blitz?

Let me give you an idea:

1.Rating is made by result of wins loses and draws with other player.

2.In bullet all players do more mistakes than in blitz or rapid. 

3. If an 2000 rated player at blitz will play another 2000 rated player at blitz but in a bullet game, there will be more mistakes but from both sides so the chance will be 50 50. Well this mean that the bullet rating should also be 2000, doesnt it? Bullet means more mistakes, but also more mistakes from your oponents. 

I hope you understand what I mean.

As I said few players do really well at fast games but don't do well at long time controls. At long time controls you can't get away with a serious mistake or blunder but many a times bullet players intentionally sac a piece or two to messup opponent's position and hence win time. Bullet and blitz require very different skill sets. For example you can get in trouble in a blitz or rapid game you play series of average moves or say weird moves in opening but it can help you win a game in bullet as it can make your opponent think as you got him/her into a position he is not habitual of playing and he has to think and take time on every single move as he/she is not aware of all the variations as he/she has to calculate it all. You can beat a 1800-2000 rated player in bullet but it's not that easy (read impossible or very tough or very unlikely ) to beat the same player in blitz or rapid. I hope ya got my point. 

 2+1 vs 3 min is practically the same but when you play 2+1, your rating pool will be deciced by other bullet pool with 1 min bullet players. ( most common bullet time). And your 3 min blitz pool will be mainly decided by 5 or 10 min blitz time control that most people play.

1 min Bullet is like 50% of chess , with bluff, premoves etc meanwhile  5 or 10 min blitz is like 75-80% chess.

In my exp, people with lower rating pool, < 1500 people have worse rating in bullet. And people with better rating pool > 1500 have  better bullet rating.

In my games, I did two times rook sacrifice. First game was a bluff but it works. Second game was real sound game. What I mean is that in bullet almost anything works if you can surprise your opponent.

https://www.chess.com/forum/view/game-showcase/rook-sacrifice-in-my-bullet

Most answers to this question attempt to answer in terms of individual abilities and performance, e.g., some people are better at slower time controls. These answers are rooted in misunderstanding.

The average blitz rating on this site is about 20 points higher than the average bullet, and more than 150 points lower than the average correspondence ("daily") rating.

If the whole pool is lower rated, individual ratings will be lower.

Anecdotal information is worthless for answering the question. Careful study of why the pools are higher or lower, on the other hand, might point us in the right direction.

In other word, if you would like to get better rating in bullet, you can learn some tips and tricks in bullets to get +100 or +200 rating. (But you must play in 1+0 bullet )

Average rating pool of bullets =985!!

Blitz =1005!!

I am really surprised. In this stite, initial rating is 1200.

Who took away 200 ratings!!  Mystery

I know there was a change in initial rating pool from 1200 to custom in a few years ago.( 800 to 1800).

Old rating pool is 1200 and new rating pool is 1300.(medium between 800 to 1800).

After playing a couple of games , player A may increase +200 rating and player B may lose -200 rating but the average rating should be the same.

For a long but very interesting discussion on the general topic of performance under time pressure - take a listed to http://revisionisthistory.com/episodes/31-puzzle-rush (contains an interview with Hikaru Nakamura).  

Mine are very similar and generally have been. Some people are just faster or slower with a mouse.

I have read in another discussion that 2+1 players are much stronger and it seems that this is a true. It looks like that blitz 3 min players are trying to improve bullet rating with 2+1 time control, same as I have tried. So, I had bullet 1650 (and blitz 1900) and usually played with players who are also much stronger in blitz (1850-250). When I switched to 1 min control, my rating has increased to 1800.

So, to make it much easier:

1 min = 1800

2+1 = 1650

3 min = 1900

Definitely 2+1 is much stronger pool.

I agree with you about rating point where bullet starts becoming higher than blitz, but I don´t think it is 1500, probably somewhere around 2100.

Good stuff wise 👍 nfo

Also we cannot necessarily assume that the pool of blitz players is the same as the pool of bullet players. In bullet you may be facing opponents who prefer and are better at one minute chess. And the strategies may be somewhat different at bullet and blitz. For bullet the faster player might beat the player who takes too long to think. 

3 years too late, but here goes nothing: you're on to something, but i'm not sure  that's the way to compare the pools. The bullet pool is much smaller than the rapid pool. For example, if you're in the top 1,000,000 players in rapid, you are in the top 10% players worldwide more or less. If you're in the top 1,000,000 in bullet, you're in the top 40%. I think that few beginners actually play bullet.

I'm very late to this discussion 🙄

There are technical factors to consider. 

If your internet connection is poor each move you make will take longer than an opponent with a good connection. Assuming the lost time per move averages the same whatever the time control then it will have a greater impact when you are playing very short games compared to longer games. 

We can theorise that players with very good internet connections, will tend to have better bullet ratings compared to the general pool. And this effect will be less noticeable the longer the time control. Add in human factors (e.g. dexterity, reaction times etc.) and the effect will be an even wider variation between those with technical and human limitations and those without.

I am currently approx 1550 bullet and 1795 blitz - quite a large gap!

Yes. You raise a good point that fir some people the connection might make a difference.

But this doesn’t explain how a person with a strong and consistently good internet might have a different blitz and bullet rating. 

Different pool, different rating. Always.

@mauihyatt - if we control for one thing (e.g. assuming chess ability is the same across each time control) then we can see that other factors impact relative performance. 

If we control for internet then we can consider how chess ability may vary (some people will think better the more time they have) and how other human factors will vary (mental and physical reaction times and dexterity come to mind) - I'm getting old (60 this year!) and although I'd wish otherwise many of these human factors get worse as we get older. So age is also likely a factor in performance variation.