Should rules of chess be changed?

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quixote88pianist

Over its long history, the rules of chess have changed gradually. For example, the double-square pawn move and en passant were added around the 15th century, and this is one of the newer changes.

What about the current rules of chess? Should there be another change in the rules? Will a rule ever be changed again, because of all the extensive research, theory, etc. that's been done? (Or, has the game become completely standardized?) What should the change be (if any)? Is chess "due" for a rule change? I have my own opinions, but what are some of your thoughts?

trysts

No. IMO.

ivandh

Fischer chess (or Chess960) for example...

Apoapsis

Play on an 8x9 board. Surprised

quixote88pianist
ivandh wrote:

Fischer chess (or Chess960) for example...


That's an example... but that's really a chess variant. But should actual chess rules be changed? Even just one of them?

I may be biased, but the relatively recent changes of castling and en passant were good rule changes in my opinion. (btw, reading about en passant and castling on Wikipedia is fascinating, including reading about the wacky methods of castling that used to be allowed.) So, given that chess has evolved for the better over time, could more changes be good too?

ivandh

What is the difference between a variant and a change? The way I see it, everyone migrates to a new, better variant, and that becomes the standard. It would be hard for FIDE to say "ok guys, the knight doesn't move like a drunk anymore" and make everyone change, unless it were an obvious and popular change, already proven to work as an offshoot variant.

JimSardonic
I think that the day will come where the most logical change is the 960 varient. In this day of computers crunching things out left and right, there's only a matter of time until the great mysteries of today are debunked. When a computer has crunched every possible variation of every possible game, it's the only logical method to 'change things up', and it's already pretty popular. I don't feel a change is needed currently, but I imagine that eventually, it will be required.
quixote88pianist
ivandh wrote:

What is the difference between a variant and a change? The way I see it, everyone migrates to a new, better variant, and that becomes the standard. It would be hard for FIDE to say "ok guys, the knight doesn't move like a drunk anymore" and make everyone change, unless it were an obvious and popular change, already proven to work as an offshoot variant.


Interesting statements. Firstly, I consider Chess960 a variant simply because it is called Chess960, while we still have standard "chess." Secondly, I'm not sure I agree that everyone migrates to a new variant... although perhaps I'm wrong, since our current "standard chess" was itself considered a variant at one time long ago.

Third, for FIDE to change how the Knight moves would be a drastic rule change, and I imagine that wouldn't catch on easily. En passant, OTOH, changed only one aspect of how pawns move, without radically altering too much. So what about subtle changes?

I've heard some people propose that the King should be allowed to move like a Knight once per game (at the player's discretion), which would come in handy as a desperation move to avoid checkmate, for example. I came to find out that this is actually not a new rule, but an old one that was abandoned.

ivandh

You seemed to miss a couple of my points and then stated them yourself. Fischer chess is a variant now, but may become the future standard, just as today's standard was yesterday's variant.

And I threw the knight rule out as a hypothetical. My point is that it is hard to force everyone to change over at once. It's probably that people will gradually migrate to a more popular variant which then becomes the standard as the old standard is abandoned.

F1N1TY

I think draw by 3 move repetition, or perpetual check beyond a certain number of moves should become a rule, and not just something obeyed in tournament play.  I think we're seeing the rule become a standard, though, I'm sure it will take many decades before it truly does.

quixote88pianist
JimSardonic wrote:
I think that the day will come where the most logical change is the 960 varient. In this day of computers crunching things out left and right, there's only a matter of time until the great mysteries of today are debunked. When a computer has crunched every possible variation of every possible game, it's the only logical method to 'change things up', and it's already pretty popular. I don't feel a change is needed currently, but I imagine that eventually, it will be required.

Not sure about this. There are so many permutations of chess games that I think even computers will never be able to solve it fully. The number of possible games is so astronomically high, I really think that players, theorists, programmers, and computers will never completely finish analyzing it.

My initial impression of Chess960 (without having played it) is that it's popular for a combination of two reasons: 1) it's still a novelty, and 2) some people are just getting bored/frustrated with chess. But as for "figuring out" chess, there is still so much work to be done... and will be for the foreseeable future... that we'll never run out of things to do. Standard chess is much too rich to die out this way.

quixote88pianist
F1N1TY wrote:

I think draw by 3 move repetition, or perpetual check beyond a certain number of moves should become a rule, and not just something obeyed in tournament play.  I think we're seeing the rule become a standard, though, I'm sure it will take many decades before it truly does.


@ivandh: I think you're right. I was wrapping my head around what you were saying, and it came together as I was typing it! And I also agree that any changes will happen gradually and not overnight. As for Fischer chess, we'll see what happens.

@F1N1TY: I agree with your opinions on threefold repetition (and possibly 50-move rule), but I'm not sure it will take decades. These provisions seem to be catching on rather quickly and regularly, and they may find themselves etched into the rule book in a matter of years!

ivandh

Fischer chess has the advantage of avoiding opening theory, which is getting quite bulky. Although computers will not be able to tell you what to do on move 21, in many cases they have already established the prior 20 moves and if your opponent memorized more than you did, he gets the advantage. And who likes memorization?

quixote88pianist
ivandh wrote:

Fischer chess has the advantage of avoiding opening theory, which is getting quite bulky. Although computers will not be able to tell you what to do on move 21, in many cases they have already established the prior 20 moves and if your opponent memorized more than you did, he gets the advantage. And who likes memorization?


Not me! Laughing Sadly, opening theory is reaching epic proportions... if it hasn't already. Still, I would hope that my disadvantage would be negligible or minimal as long as I played common-sense moves when my opening knowledge runs out. And I can see how Fischer chess gives the game a fresher feel. I just prefer to stick with regular chess, because... essentially, I have enough to do as it is!

Flamma_Aquila

Absolutely not! One of the things that makes chess great is that it has been played, in its current form alone, for hundreds of years, in dozens of countries.

ruachessnut2

Lasker claimed that a well played game of chess should last 40 moves. If each move has only 2 choices for me I can play 1,099,511,627,776 games of chess. For those who play very fast (1 move per second)  it will take you more than 2,789,223 years to play every game once. I am not worried about a human knowing everything.

quixote88pianist
ruachessnut2 wrote:

Lasker claimed that a well played game of chess should last 40 moves. If each move has only 2 choices for me I can play 1,099,511,627,776 games of chess. For those who play very fast (1 move per second)  it will take you more than 2,789,223 years to play every game once. I am not worried about a human knowing everything.


My point exactly. Thanks for crunching those numbers for me!

theblindtiger

What needs to be added? The game is fine as it is.

Paunescu64

Allowing players to promote pawns to opponents pieces with the idea of forcing stalemate. As for the opening another try is to have each side come up with the first 10 moves or so before the game starts and then play the resulting position normally (but not allow players to put pieces or pawns in the enemy half of the board). I think this whould give chess engine more trouble than chess960. Or maybe they'll find a perfect position for either side that can be reached in 10 moves?

MyCowsCanFly
Adrian-Paunescu wrote:

Allowing players to promote pawns to opponents pieces with the idea of forcing stalemate.


 Allow pawns to promote to kings. Wink