Swiss system help please.

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Anthony_Ibbitson

I was just about to do the draw for the 4th round of our club championship but as a couple have dropped out, the pairing is now much more difficult with odd numbers of the same score. Below is the information needed, please could someone tell me who should play who based on this? I know you don't know who's already played who but it will give me a rough idea. Cheers!

 

Pos Name Grade Points Seeking
1 Mark Szymanski 151 3 Black
2 James Hunt 162 2.5 White
3 Khalid Mohammed 142 2.5 Black
4 Anthony Ibbitson 128 2 White
5 Neil Broatch 111 2 White
6 Jonathan Mahony 108 2 Black
7 Zana Aziz 98 2 White
8 Lincoln Tomlin 122 1 White
9 Hugh Boyd 93 1 Black
10 James Mackintosh 85 1 Black
11 John Light 85 1 Black
12 Alan Riddle 78 1 White
13 Scott Davies 64 1 White
14 Kenneth Marsden 85 0 Black
Conflict

I think Mark should play vs. whichever one of Khalid / James he hasn't. If he's played neither then do a random draw.

Similarly, do a random draw from those elligible for whoever is left over from Khalid / James vs someone on .

Repeat for the players on 1 vs the left over players on 2 points then finally for Kenneth vs players on 1.

Therefore its chance who plays the player on a difference point.

jerry2468

1 with 2

3 - 4

5 - 6

7 - 9

8 - 10

11 - 12

13 - 14

Best I can do.

Anthony_Ibbitson

But it needs to fit in with the Swiss system rules where all players on the same score are ordered by grade, then the top half is paired with the bottom half.

This is not easy as there's too many odd numbered pools of certain scores. If I downfloat Khalid to the 2 point pool then they are uneven, maybe I float up the highest grade of each pool - For instance, float James up to Mark, float myself (Anthony) up to Khalid, then float Lincoln up to the 2 point pool.

Any ideas from anyone who knows the Swiss system?

DrSpudnik

More info needed:

You need to know who has played against whom already?

Plus, an optimal white/black allocation may not be possible, so it is important to see who has had two blacks/whites in a row already.

Anthony_Ibbitson

Hang on, I'll add the games.

Anthony_Ibbitson

Here's the games:

 Board  White  Grade  Vs  Black  Grade  Res
 1  Zana Aziz  98    James Hunt  162  0-1
 2  Mark Szymanski  151  Hugh Boyd  93  1-0
 3  Ken Marsden  85    Khalid Mohammed  142  0-1
 4  Tony Ibbitson  128  John Light  85  1-0
 5  James Mackintosh  85  Lincoln Tomlin  122  1-0
 6  Jonathan Mahony  108  Alan Shires  72  1-0
 7  Scott Davies  64    Neil Broatch  111  0-1
 8  Robert Burns  105  Alan Riddle  78  1-0
 Board  White  Grade  Vs  Black  Grade  Res
 1  James Hunt  162  Jonathan Mahony  108  1-0
 2  Neil Broatch  111  Mark Szymanski  151  0-1
 3  Khalid Mohammed  142  Robert Burns  105  1-0
 4  James Mackintosh  85  Anthony Ibbitson  128  0-1
 5  John Light  85  Lincoln Tomlin  122  0-1
 6  Alan Shires  72  Zana Aziz  98  0-1
 7  Hugh Boyd  93  Scott Davies  64  1-0
 8  Alan Riddle  78  Ken Marsden  85  1-0
 Board  White  Grade  Vs  Black  Grade
 1  Khalid Mohammed  142    James Hunt  162  0.5-0.5
 2  Mark Szymanski  151
 Tony Ibbitson  128  1-0
 3  Lincoln Tomlin  122
 Zana Aziz  98  0-1
 4  Hugh Boyd  93
 Neil Broatch  111  0-1
 5  Jonathan Mahony  108
 Alan Riddle  78  1-0
 6  John Light
 85
 James Mackintosh  85  1-0
 7  Alan Shires  72
 John Light  85  Didn't play
 8  Ken Marsden  85
 Scott Davies  64  0-1

 

Loomis

You are supposed to float the bottom player from an uneven group down to the next group.

The first option is to pair James vs. Mark.

But if they both have already had two blacks or both have already had two whites, you can pair Mark vs. Khalid. Based on your Color Seeking list, this doesn't appear to be the case, so James vs Mark.

Then Khalid should be paired with the top out of the 2 points group. Again, the colors don't counter-indicate a pairing with Anthony, so we should have Anthony vs. Khalid.

The group with 2 points now has 3 players and it is the lowest rated player that should be floated down. Neil and Jonathan are paired and Zana is floated down.

The rules say that the player floated down is to be paired first. I read this to mean paired with the top player from the next section. In this case, I would pair with the top player where the colors match. So Zana is paired with Hugh.

For the remainder of the group with 1, the lowest rated person would get floated down and play Kenneth, the remainder are paired normally.

Anthony_Ibbitson

Ken is seeking Black so should he not be playing Lincoln? The bottom two are seeking white but have already played Ken, the others are also seeking black. This leaves Lincoln.

TheOldReb

Arent all pairings done by computer programs now ? What does the uscf use ? Here I think its swissperfect or swissmanager...... I have noticed a trend though of " wrong pairings " and when the players complain the arbiter will simply dismiss it with a shrug and say " the computer does the pairings " and it seems after this nothing can be done...... however, this is a can of worms as pairings can be manually changed/manipulated ! 

TheOldReb

BTW, Loomis did an excellent job , which means I must ask :

Loomis , are you now, or have you ever been, a mamber of the TD party ?! Wink

Anthony_Ibbitson

It's too late now for Swissperfect, it won't allow me to pair midway through a tournament.

Loomis

The TD party? Let me check my registration cards.... Well, I'm not a card carrying member.

I used to be a TD. Actually running events is not so bad, it's the organization previous to it that's so much trouble. Plus, there are plenty of good TDs in my area.

Billymill

Taking account of who has already played who (or whom?) causes problems in applying the rules strictly.  But if the lowest 8 in the table (ie from Zana to Ken) are treated as a single group and split for pairing at the halfway point, a workable result is obtained with one exception:

1  James H   v   Mark

2  Tony   v   Khalid

3  Neil   v   Jon

4  Zana   v   John L

5  Lincoln   v   Alan

6  Hugh   v   Scott

7  James M   v   Ken

The game that doesn't fit is Hugh v Scott because they have already played each other.  But if the last 2 games on the list swap partners, so that Hugh plays Ken and James plays Scott, that looks workable and seems to meet the spirit of the rules as nearly as can be.

Does that help?

Alan

Anthony_Ibbitson

Yeah that looks good to me Alan, cheers! T. The only problem is the colours again, unfortunately this cannot really be avoided.

Anthony_Ibbitson

I have taken everything into account:

Alan, you are almost spot on with your selection however, Zana should play Hugh - as he has been floated down, he should play the highest graded of the group(barring Lincoln as they have played)just as Khalid has with myself in the group above.

I have switched James and Ken around so that they both have a different colour to the last round.

Alan and Ken will have had 2 extra blacks so they are guaranteed white in the following round.

This is what I have:

James H v Mark

Tony v Khalid

Neil v Jon

Zana v Hugh

Lincoln v Alan

Scott v John

James M v Ken

DrSpudnik
Reb wrote:

Arent all pairings done by computer programs now ? What does the uscf use ? Here I think its swissperfect or swissmanager...... I have noticed a trend though of " wrong pairings " and when the players complain the arbiter will simply dismiss it with a shrug and say " the computer does the pairings " and it seems after this nothing can be done...... however, this is a can of worms as pairings can be manually changed/manipulated ! 


I only do pairings on paper. If the USCF will buy me a portable computer with a printer, maybe I'll change my mind about this.  

DrSpudnik

They probably won't like it...but

1. Hunt                Szymanski

2. Ibbitson           Mohamed

3. Broach             Mahoney

4. Aziz                 Tomlin

5. Davies              Light

6. Riddle              Boyd

7. Marsden            Mackintosh

The first 3 boards were easy. The problem was that Marsden already played Davies & Riddle (the lowest two one-pointers).

And finally, if anyone complains about colors, I always say that it's their own fault for not winning their earlier round.

DrSpudnik

The club I play in and pair tournaments for has an end-of-the-month 10 minute tournament that has from 8 to 14 people. These tiny sections are the toughest to pair, given the variety of little rules about color allocation and score-groups and who gets dropped down etc. But it can be done...and without computers.