Use of analysis board

Hi all,

I am not sure if this is the correct place for this topic, and my guess is topic has been discussed before.

Since there are so many threads in this forum, I am asking here so I can get a direct answer.

I just want to make certain that using the analisys board during time based games (3-5 days per move) is permitted, and not considered cheating.   

That is the wy I interpret the guidelines as described by Erik in a thread began 5 years ago.

My use of the AB is playing out different move possibilities on part of myself and my game partner to see what might happen if this move or that move is made.

It seems legit to me, but please tell me if such use of the board (while the game is in progress) is permiited, or if I am misusing the feature.

Thanks you,

Rob

Analysis boards are OK for turn-based play.  If they were not, there would be no "Analysis" link displayed beside the board.  You may NOT use chess engines or computer assistance in determining your moves.

There are two approaches to Correspondence Chess.  You have the USCF rules - Periodicals, Magazines, Databases, Analysis, etc are legal.  Chess Engines are not.  Then you have the ICCF approach, where everything is fair game, including chess engines.

Chess.com uses the same rules as USCF.  No engine, but there is nothing that stops you from analyzing your position on a board with no engine, or looking up the 20th move of the Najdorf Poisoned Pawn Variation, and that's all perfectly legal.  Even if you assume all rules are followed, Correspondence Chess and Over The Board Chess are two completely different animals.

I am not so sure of that reasoning.

gtrrobster

I do the same as you.  But then I was surprised I didn't easilly find something that clearly indicated you could do that.  I wonder how many of my opponents did not think that was legal.  

Is there some rule regarding turn based chess at chess.com  that makes it clear you can use an analysis board to "move the pieces" while the game is in progress?  

A rule doesn't need to be written for that.  It's the globally accepted rule about Correspondence Chess (forget about the "Turn-based" chess terminology - it's freaking Correspondence Chess).  Why make things more difficult than it already is?

Well I just posted in another thread that I use an analysis board and some thought it might be unethical of me.  I guess what you and I might have thought were globally accepted norms might not be so global.  A rule would make it more clear.  I don't like the idea that a portion of the people I was playing may have thought they could not use an analysis board and also might have thought I was not using one.  

http://www.chess.com/forum/view/general/blitzbullet-rating-is-the-only-thing-that-matters-in-internet-chess?lc=1#last_comment

At first I thought this thread was a bit silly since of course you can move pieces around or use the digital equivalent in correspondence chess.  Then I checked the Help & Support section and you're right; there is no mention of using the analysis board!

I'm rather new here, but I'll toss my two-cents in anyway. If using the analysis board is illegal, then I have been cheating on every single game I've played thus-far.

To make matters worse, back when I was playing CC by postal-mail, and I can't even believe I am admitting this... I actually used a physical chess set to analyze moves!

I agree with mldavis617, if it were not permitted then it makes very little sense for the option to be right there on this site.

My terminology is a bit confusing - I apologize.  What I mean by "turn-based" chess is what chess.com calls "Online Chess" or what is perhaps best called online correspondence chess.  The "Analysis" board is available on games in which it is OK to use.

Thanks for all the responses and civil discussion.

It seems that use of the analysis board is legal during games.   Which is great news, because it certainly allows us to study and make the best move we can come up with.   Since it all comes from us, and in no way is seeking advice from a computer, I am glad doing so is not considered cheating.

  In response to the very good question: why would a link to the AB board be there if its use were illegal, my thought was it may be allowed to use only after the game was completed to make assesment after the game had concluded.

Thanks again,

Rob

In that case it would probably only appear at the end of the game like the "computer analysis" option

niceforkinmove,

Sorry, if you felt like I was accusing of being unethical. I was actually raising the question whether it was ethical and whether it did aid your development. However, my understanding is that it is legal as I believe the only assistance to be illegal is engine use.

Hence, if you want to take this approach to turn based chess then fair enough. As I also have no real knowledge of correspondence chess either then maybe this is an accepted way to play.

No offense taken at all.  In fact I appreciate the comment and find it interesting.  Your comment made me consider that perhaps one of my friends might be playing without ever looking at the analysis board.  He is a very casual player and might think it would not be proper to move the pieces.  

I would say there is about a 50% chance he doesn't think either of us should be moving the pieces and looking at lines with an analysis board and I would feel kind of bad if I found that out.  

I think perhaps chess.com should just make it a bit more clear that you can move the pieces and look at lines with the analysis board. I was just looking for a clear rule to say we can definitely move the pieces and explore lines from our games.   It seems we can based on people saying so on forums but I would prefer to see clear rule since in any otb game (which is what most people have experience with) you clearly can not.  

For example:

Now I am assuming that if you play a slow say 2 hours per game and 90 seconds per move, move on chess.com I think it would be against the rules to use an analysis board to check lines.     Wouldn't it?  I think some people view these online chess games sort of the same way.  They  just doen't want to sit there waiting for the other guy to move.  

At least to me the lines seem more blurred than before I considered your comment.  

I tend to think chess.com should clarify these things not so much that they are afraid people are cheating but also just so people know what to expect.  

I would guess that there is no practical way to prevent someone from using a second board.  Computer moves can be detected relatively easily given an adequate sample, but an analysis board could be simply a physical board set up by the computer and would be effectively "invisible."

The main purpose with chess.com for most of us is to be able to play others of desired strength without the expense and time to travel to OTB tournaments.  It is essentially a learning site in which the ratings don't mean anything outside of matching abilities of players (outside of cheaters, of course, who don't play, they just run their engines).

So some of us use the analysis board, others maintain a bit more self-discipline in trying to keep it all in our heads as we practice for OTB play.

So that's why I'm having such a hard time crushing my opponents 😨....[kidding, just kidding].

Just a question when games were adjourned they could look at a Chessboard and move the pieces on that board right?  They would even be able to analyze it with another player.   

One good reason you can't move the pieces around over the board is it would disrupt your opponents ability to analyze.  

I wonder if anyone even ever thought to bring a second pocket set and try to move the pieces around during the game or if that was officially against the rules.  

Playing a game out on a second board in a OTB tournament would be a performance aid, just like it is in correspondence chess. Hence, I am guessing it would not be allowed in an OTB tournament for that reason.

As for taking a second board into a OTB tournament. Cheating of any kind in an average OTB tournament doesn't strike me as a particularly hard thing to do (it may be more difficult to do it in a GM tournament). I recently played in a OTB tournament and went to the toilet early in one game. It was on the way to the toilet that it struck me how easy it would be to look up that opening line I was struggling to remember on my mobile phone!

Just saw all the responses.   Thanks for contributing.

I like to use the AB, but I do understand how many do not use it as a way of sharpening their skills by keeping all the possible moves and replies in their head.  I have gotten so used to using the analysis board, that I would do much worse in an OTB game.

I actually didn't realise it existed until recently, when my friend told me about it. Useful tool that it is, I wish he hadn't, as it definitely diminishes your calculation skills and it's too tempting not to use. I wish there was an option to turn it off!