Using rooks

Sort:
JimSardonic

I never really feel that I'm getting the most out of my rooks. I can connect them, but then what? If I try to place them where I think a pawn break will come, they tend to sit idle until the endgame. I read a post or article about a teacher who would walk by his student's practice games and grab unused rooks, saying "If you're not gonna use them, why have them?!" How can I improve on this? Are there rules like the 'rooks belong behind passed pawns' type that I can use?

Blackadder

post positions/games....

 

Rooks dont usually come out to play until the endgame, so the 'problem of unused rooks' is a natural one.

That said, here are a few basic rules for middlegame rook play:

1) get them on the same file as the enemy queen (the eventual idea being to open the file up and reveal a discovered attack)

2) be careful which rook you use!  suppose the e-file is open, you should very carefully consider which rook to move, if the game looks like all the action is going to be on the queenside, its probably best to controll the e-file with the kingside rook, etc.  to move the Queenside rook could have two major drawbacks (a) it leaves the kingside rook with very little to do, (b) because of the queenside action, we would want a rook in that region of the board [and if we want a pieces in that general direction, why move peices away when we dont have to?], and if in a couple of moves later we decide we really need rooks on the queenside then i you will probably have to give up the e-file [but since the open e-file is important to control you will probably want a rook there...so in this scenerio you will probably move the kingside rook to control it...why not save yourself all this hassle and just move the kingside rook in the first place?]

3) double them on the open or half-open files.

other than that, there isnt really much for rooks to do in the middlegame.

oinquarki

Buy/borrow My System by Nimzowich, read the chapters about files and the 7th and 8th ranks. I think they're numbers 2 and 3.

JimSardonic
Many thanks for the responses. I can't post games as I'm currently limited to accessing the site by iPhone, and it doesn't take too kindly to the game posting button. Similarly, I can't make paragraphs :( I've considered 'My System' for quite some time, fellow Nutter. My fear is that it's too advanced for me currently. I tend to fluctuate between 1300-1400 quite a bit on here, and have been told that 'My System' should be put off until 1600. Would you disagree?
JimSardonic
Also, Adder, your list is helpful in that most of that I am comfortable with. I feared I wasn't getting all I could out of my forces, but it sounds like I'm not too far off from correct (as a whole, certainly not situationally!)
Blackadder

Here is a position adapted (removed 2 bishops) from on of your finished games Jim.    

 

Black to move:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

This is an interesting position because it allows us to see how rooks can get into the game.   How should black use his rooks?  well one clear idea comes to mind, by playing Rc8 we get to a half open file and we put more pressure on whites bishop, perhaps with the tactical idea of trading peices to give white a bad pawn structure:

 

...and after the very last move, black is left with some pawn taking options (i.e Rxc4 Rxd6 [note that this move is only possible because we moved the Rdc8] Rxe4) and if white does not do anything to remove all this pressure (e.g Kb2) then black has the monster Qb6; which creates two pins, one against the queen proper, and one against the king.  

Now we have seen some varaitions and ideas, we can ask ourselves whether there is a way for black to improve on this. We moved the d-rook to the c-file, which left our a-rook doing nothing, our d-pawn vunerable (which gives whites d-rook more influence over the board, plus it means it is harder to push the d-pawn without losing it)...so may we would have been better of moving the a-rook: 

in our trading peices variation white cannot play Rxd6 but black can play Rxc4 meaning that by moving Rac8 as opposed to Rdc8 wins us at least a pawn and prevents some counterplay white might have with Rxd6. 

oinquarki

ooh nice one!

Cystem_Phailure

Remember that Rooks can have influence on an entire file even if they appear to be "blocked" by pieces or pawns.  I've mentioned this in a couple other posts, but one of my favorite chess adages is that a Rook should be thought of as a cannon aimed at you from the next room.  Just because there's a wall in between doesn't mean you shouldn't worry.  That applies to your own Rooks too, when you're deciding where to place them.  Even if you don't have any open files, there may still be some back-rank squares better than others.  As mentioned above, it's often good to place a Rook on the same file as your opponent's Queen.

oinquarki

or king

Dragec

Blackadder , although your advice is generally OK, unfortunately you have completely missed the point with your example.

One should learn to use his rooks, that's right, but what's more important is to use an opportunity, either by using rooks or not.

So, the solution to your diagram is simple b5! with devastating effect(bishop is pinned) Wink

Dragec

Yes indeed, although you also missed a best response by black, which is to play g6 himself, not Kf8 Cool

Dragec

And here is the confirmation from Fritz:

Line1: ...g6 2. c4 Kf8 3. c5 Ke8 4. Rd4 Rd8 gives only a small 0,33 advantage for white

Line 2. ... Kf8 2. g6 fxg6 3. Kg4 Kg8 4. b3 a6 - gives white a measurable 1,37 advantage.

Blackadder
Dragec wrote:

Blackadder , although your advice is generally OK, unfortunately you have completely missed the point with your example.

One should learn to use his rooks, that's right, but what's more important is to use an opportunity, either by using rooks or not.

So, the solution to your diagram is simple b5! with devastating effect(bishop is pinned)


my post was about ideas... I didnt concern myself with 'best play'.  And, for the record:

b5 f4 Nd2 Qd4 bxc4? f5  is more or less equal.    

The actual best move [IMO] in the position is Bxc4 played straight away.

Dragec
Blackadder wrote:
Dragec wrote:
So, the solution to your diagram is simple b5! with devastating effect(bishop is pinned)

my post was about ideas... I didnt concern myself with 'best play'.  And, for the record:

b5 f4 Nd2 Qd4 bxc4? f5  is more or less equal.    

The actual best move [IMO] in the position is Bxc4 played straight away.


Not quite IMO. Cool

b5 f4 Nd7(Nd2 is impossible) bxc4 f5. cxb3! - how could it be more or less equal, white just lost a piece?

if fxe6?? then Qxc2+ Ka1 Qxa2#.

I can pull the diagram through Fritz when I get home in the afternoon to get the numeric evaluation of the position.

As I said, I agree with your ideas, but to support then with the incorrect diagram just seems wrong to me Wink

Dragec
tonydal wrote:

Please, no Fritz and no "numeric evaluations" (good grief)...


I won't if blackadder won't object my continuation, but if he would stick with his, then who knows Cool

Dragec

More like rebel without a bishop Wink