Was Bobby Fischer crazy?

It's been decades since I took PSYC 101 in college and I'm certainly no expert on insanity, but I remember the condition known as Neurosis means the person sees the world in fundamentally different ways than is normal.  I think that fits Bobby's behavior.

I also coached a high school chess club where some of the members had grown up with poor social skills and had been bullied in life to the point where they fell apart when they were teased about bad moves.  I then called our Chess Club classroom the "Positive Attitude Room" and only constructive criticism was allowed.  I remember Bobby Fischer being so angry at losing on the Black side of the King's Gambit that he took the time to study and write an article for Chess Life entitled something like, "The King's Gambit is Crushed!"

Like my socially-unstable teenagers, Bobby seemed to feel everyone was against him and he was too affected by losses.  When you have an attitude like that, you see conspiracies and unfairness where there are none and that would explain a lot of Bobby's behavior.

It should be pointed out, though, that there's no question the Soviet Grandmasters played games - like prearranging easy draws among each other so they'd be mentally fresh in their next game against non-Soviet players.  Bobby's claim he was the real world champion in the '60's has a lot of truth to it.

MickinMD, Yes, chess players throw tantrums from time to time. Carlsen did it. Hou Yifan did it just recently by tanking the game and resigning in a few moves. Yet calling someone crazy is overkill, even if the person is delusional with ridiculous conspiracies. Fischer didn't seem to be crazy in his interviews. He might have been eccentric and cantankerous but not crazy. If they had gotten him, they would surely had him committed. if he had lived 70 years ago, they might have lobotomized him. His death is also not clear. I hope he died of a natural cause (renal failure) as they say. Go figure.

Let me quote this "official story" once again, On May 26, 1981, while walking in Pasadena, Fischer was arrested by a police patrolman, allegedly because he matched the description of a man who had just committed a bank robbery in the area. Fischer, who alleged that he was slightly injured during the arrest, said that he was held for two days, subjected to assault and various types of mistreatment, and released on $1,000 bail.

If someone is cut from his/her home country and all connections there and labeled crazy, I think, that person is entitled to be a bit angry at the world around, especially when being mistreated in other countries too. I'm talking about Japan. Don't know what exactly happened in the Soviet Union but I'm sure Fischer had good reasons to be angry and disappointed, especially when he thought that Kasparov vs Karpov match was prearranged. I believe he had reasons to think so, rather than criticizing that specific match out of pure spite.

Sadly, Robert Fischer exhibited the criteria for Paranoid Schizophrenia; in addition, researchers traced who his biological father was (a professor-forgotten name), and that gentleman was diagnosed schizophrenic.  A tragedy!

Let me say even more here. If Karpov had agreed to the match with Fischer, the latter would have polished Karpov off. To back this up, I'd say Fischer was always far ahead of the competition and his Elo estimates are much higher than that of Karpov by a sweeping margin.

edwardearl, What he exhibited is not clear. He doesn't come across as a schizophrenic in his videos. Auditory delusions are not mentioned. Maybe they will be concocted later on to seal the deal. Right now all we have is a lot of indirect accusations of some mental illness. Well, by the same token millions and millions of Americans and people around the world should be called crazy if they believed in some conspiracy theories.

Sorry, but I'm not going to take Bobby "Mossad Agents Are Watching My Every Move" Fischer's word for things when there are other accounts to the contrary.

I also find it unconvincing that when I mentioned his odd behavior from the late 1970s you pull out the 1981 arrest as some sort of proof that "harassment" drove him to his craziness. (It must be those darn time-traveling Illuminati again.) But since you brought it up, here are some tips on dealing with cops in Pasadena and elsewhere: If they stop you walking in a neighborhood, don't show them an out-of-state ID using an alias instead of your real name. When they ask you as an out of state visitor where you're headed and you say you live in the neighborhood, don't be surprised or evasive when they ask you for the address that you're staying at. Don't be surprised when they're not interested in your offer to show them, just tell them your address -- an ability most children possess. And after offering to show them where you live, don't try to BS them that you suddenly don't remember the address. Oh, and when they take you in for further questioning because you're obviously either lying or in need of constant adult supervision, here's a Pro Tip: don't try to convince them they're making a terrible mistake by kicking and biting them.

As to FIDE, they agreed to all of his demands except the obviously unfair rule that the champion would retain the title on a 9-9 score. How does agreeing to all but one of his demands constitute harassment?

ObMovieQuote: "You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means."

It's very hard not to judge someone who has been dead for a long time, as it's unlikely any of us actually knew him.  Therefore we all have a completely objective viewpoint of Bobby Fischer - that which we know comes from someone else.  I'm not simply throwing around arguments for the sake of arguing.  I'm simply disagreeing with you.  I don't see why you have to react in a hostile way.  

Fischer made the statements he said against many people, and therefore if people judge them, it's not my problem.  He made those statements.  

I also don't think he was 'crazy', as you say, and I've never used that word lightly.  I said that he was paranoid, and that he fits the parameters for paranoid schizophrenia.  

 

The media attention as harassment theory doesn't explain Fischer's behavior very well. He seemed quite happy to appear on television shows and be lauded after he'd won the title. It was only later, after he went into seclusion and the media lost track of him that the seriously dysfunctional behavior appeared.

Media attention or not, Carlsen and numerous other world champions are vastly superior to Fischer in one important respect: they are true champions who kept playing chess after winning the crown. It is a contribution to the chess world that shouldn't be underestimated. Throwing up barriers to your challengers instead of competing makes you look small and afraid instead of great -- and I say that as something of a Lasker fan.

in any case, it's always adviseable to address ones own mental issues and do something about them instead of pretending you're ok, but Fischer wasnt.

KholmovDM, I agree that we all have our subjective opinions (I guess that is what you tried to say by using "objective"). I'm not reacting in any hostile way though. I just think Fischer was not a bad guy. He was rather peaceful and nice, while he probably was somewhat eccentric. I also believe that he said a lot of things out of spite and didn't really mean them, like I hate chess; or 9/11 is wonderful news; f...k the United States; it's a wonderful day. It was in a half joke. I believe he loved the US but things went awry to put it mildly.

Surely it wasn't a joke and things like that so many people say in a bad time without really meaning it. If people from russia say things like that it becomes difficult!

tygorius,  You said, “Sorry, but I'm not going to take Bobby "Mossad Agents Are Watching My Every Move"

Don’t know anything about Mossad vs Fischer but the police and FBI seemed to have harassed him if you watched his videos. And harass means exactly what it is supposed to mean. You can look it up in a dictionary if you are not sure about its meaning.

As to your statement, “As to FIDE, they agreed to all of his demands except the obviously unfair rule that the champion would retain the title on a 9-9 score. How does agreeing to all but one of his demands constitute harassment?” – well, I think there is more to that, rather than Fischer being completely unreasonable with a 9-9 thing. Okay, here he might have been somewhat eccentric. I think he could have reached an agreement about the conditions, and then, he would probably have beaten Karpov. Whatever. I believe he was entitled to his 9-9 demand.

On the whole they didn’t let go of him, constantly calling him crazy, making a fool out of him by editing his My 60 Memorable Games in such a way as to disparage him. And that’s nothing compared to the real threats of imprisonment.

CookedQueen, When people are p..d off big time, they might say a whole lot of things that they don't really mean. So, I understand Fischer here. Of course he should not have said what he said but bs happens in this life. Once again, I'm sure he loved the US. It's the guys who pull the strings, it's them who he had a beef with if you understand what I mean.

True

And even more, I don’t think he really hated Jews. He just hated the guys who pull the strings. Fischer blew things way out of proportion. He called holy books nonsense etc. He should not have done that either! I believe he was so teed off that he didn’t care anymore. Nevertheless, I think he understood that ethnicity or nationality does’t mean much. What with his IQ he should have understood that racial and skin color differences are just adaptations of human beings to a particular climate zone. Unfortunately things went the way they went. What is said can’t be unsaid, what is done can’t be undone.

How you people can't see, understand he was stitched up & branded a loony is beyond me. It's so easy for me to tell what the truth is. He was not mad. He didn't play game with the right people so they stitched him up & tried to ruin him in every way they can. That is the truth & the fact

 

Couldn't agree more. He was far from crazy. Would've loved to see him play vs Kasparov but it was not meant to be. As to Karpov, I'm sure, Fischer would've polished him off. At least Fischer left a legacy of chess 960 which doesn't require rote learning. He also left a lot of great games including rapids and blitzes. Just got a hold of his original My 60 Memorable Games where his superb chess analysis isn't tampered with (it has the old notation which is a bit uncomfortable to read).

https://timkr.home.xs4all.nl/chess2/pasad.htm

If Fischer really wrote this, I think this shows he could still think logically and make reasonable conclusions (e.g he wondered why the police officer would tell him "This is serious" when the officer had accused him of bank robbery and therefore of course he knew it was serious, most of his other points seem logical and not crazy, like why was he charged with destroying prison property when other prisoners slept inside their mattresses too to stay warm)

I don't think paranoia is natural, it's a consequence of your life experiences. In Fischer's case, incidents like these and all the spying on him would of course make him paranoid. How would you feel when you're arrested and tortured for no reason, or when you know the government is actually specifically spying on you?

All these things about him being mad/crazy is likely a plot to destroy his image and credibility so that people would not believe the things he knew and said. He may have said many controversial things but I truly believe they were merely fueled by his disgust and hate for the people who ruined him. By then he was a gone man and he probably gave no shits anymore about ranting in public.

I guess it was a bad thing to continue this thread but this is just my opinion on the matter, be sure to read that link for a brief insight into Fischer's mind.

https://timkr.home.xs4all.nl/chess2/pasad.htm