What are the most and least sound gambits?

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sammynouri

The most sound gambit is known, the queens gambit (if it can even be considered a gambit), but are there any others that are known to be completely sound, sort of sound, or just plain dumb? The only gambits I'm familiar with are the QG, KG, Smith-Morra, Budapest (perhaps my favourite) and the wing gambit (perhaps the least sound?).

GMKenWest

I didn't think that the Budapest Gambit was a gambit either, am I wrong? The only gambits that I can think of off the top of my head that are sound (but not very strong) are the Benko and Evans Gambits. I'm sure that there are many more though.

sammynouri
GMKenWest wrote:

I didn't think that the Budapest Gambit was a gambit either, am I wrong? The only gambits that I can think of off the top of my head that are sound (but not very strong) are the Benko and Evans Gambits. I'm sure that there are many more though.

The Budapest is often considered unsound, I disagree but it should be classified as a gambit, even though black usually takes back the pawn.

GMKenWest

Oh, the Two Knights Defence. That must be the most sound gambit. As for unsound ones, well, there are hundreds...

BigDoggProblem

Most sound is probably the Benko gambit.

Least sound is the Fred (1.e4 f5?!)

I'm not sure I would call the Queen's Gambit a gambit.

JustinJ_FairfieldU

How about the Marshal gambit in the Queen's gambit for soundest? Only considering sane gambits for the worst I know the ruy lopez schliemann gambit has a dubious reputation.

kamuimaru

Least sound is the Paris Gambit of the Ammonia Opening; 1.Nh3 d5 2. g3 e5 3. f4, and after 3... Bxh3 4. Bxh3 exf4, white can't recapture or else 5... Qh4+.

I know it's a silly opening because of 1. Nh3 but it still qualifies =P

BigDoggProblem
JustinJ_FairfieldU wrote:

How about the Marshal gambit in the Queen's gambit for soundest? Only considering sane gambits for the worst I know the ruy lopez schliemann gambit has a dubious reputation.

Marshall in the Ruy? I'd say highly effective in a pragmatic sense, but I'm not sold on its soundness.

JustinJ_FairfieldU
BigDoggProblem wrote:
JustinJ_FairfieldU wrote:

How about the Marshal gambit in the Queen's gambit for soundest? Only considering sane gambits for the worst I know the ruy lopez schliemann gambit has a dubious reputation.

Marshall in the Ruy? I'd say highly effective in a pragmatic sense, but I'm not sold on its soundness.

I was talking about the Marshal Gambit in the QGD I always try to steer clear of it when I am on the black side of the board.  I hate the Marshal defense in the ruy. I used to play it then gave it up because I could never seem to get anything.

 

Jimmykay
BigDoggProblem wrote:
JustinJ_FairfieldU wrote:

How about the Marshal gambit in the Queen's gambit for soundest? Only considering sane gambits for the worst I know the ruy lopez schliemann gambit has a dubious reputation.

Marshall in the Ruy? I'd say highly effective in a pragmatic sense, but I'm not sold on its soundness.

I'll pick the Marshal gambit for soundness, not based on my own understanding of it, but on the fact that Kasparov himself (and many others) play anti-Marshall lines to avoid having to face it.

BigDoggProblem
Jimmykay wrote:
BigDoggProblem wrote:
JustinJ_FairfieldU wrote:

How about the Marshal gambit in the Queen's gambit for soundest? Only considering sane gambits for the worst I know the ruy lopez schliemann gambit has a dubious reputation.

Marshall in the Ruy? I'd say highly effective in a pragmatic sense, but I'm not sold on its soundness.

I'll pick the Marshal gambit for soundness, not based on my own understanding of it, but on the fact that Kasparov himself (and many others) play anti-Marshall lines to avoid having to face it.

That doesn't mean it's sound....just hard to refute in a single OTB game with the clock ticking. I too avoid the Marshall. Why should I let Black have that much fun?

JustinJ_FairfieldU
BigDoggProblem wrote:
Jimmykay wrote:
BigDoggProblem wrote:
JustinJ_FairfieldU wrote:

How about the Marshal gambit in the Queen's gambit for soundest? Only considering sane gambits for the worst I know the ruy lopez schliemann gambit has a dubious reputation.

Marshall in the Ruy? I'd say highly effective in a pragmatic sense, but I'm not sold on its soundness.

I'll pick the Marshal gambit for soundness, not based on my own understanding of it, but on the fact that Kasparov himself (and many others) play anti-Marshall lines to avoid having to face it.

That doesn't mean it's sound....just hard to refute in a single OTB game with the clock ticking. I too avoid the Marshall. Why should I let Black have that much fun?

I guess it really comes down to how you define sound. Since the QGA marshal gives both sides significant winning chances, I would say it is sound.  As opposed to something like the KGA or to a lesser extent the smith-morra that have been shown to give little prospect for white when black knows the theory

Jimmykay
BigDoggProblem wrote:
Jimmykay wrote:
BigDoggProblem wrote:
JustinJ_FairfieldU wrote:

How about the Marshal gambit in the Queen's gambit for soundest? Only considering sane gambits for the worst I know the ruy lopez schliemann gambit has a dubious reputation.

Marshall in the Ruy? I'd say highly effective in a pragmatic sense, but I'm not sold on its soundness.

I'll pick the Marshal gambit for soundness, not based on my own understanding of it, but on the fact that Kasparov himself (and many others) play anti-Marshall lines to avoid having to face it.

That doesn't mean it's sound....just hard to refute in a single OTB game with the clock ticking. I too avoid the Marshall. Why should I let Black have that much fun?

I do not think that anyone cares about the technical evaluation of the soundness of an opening by 1600-1700 players like you and me. We are not remotely qualified to address that part of the question. My point is that if it were "unsound", than the best players in the world would not be avoiding it.

sammynouri
umbrella_corporation wrote:

queen's gambit isn't a gambit noob

Yeah, I know, did you even read what I said?

Cheddarman1
umbrella_corporation wrote:

queen's gambit isn't a gambit noob

What is wrong with you?

johnyoudell

To think that the Queen's Gambit is not a gambit is odd indeed.

sammynouri
johnyoudell wrote:

To think that the Queen's Gambit is not a gambit is odd indeed.

But it''s technically not a gambit. White will win it back in the QGA comfortably, and can keep it in the QGD.

TheGreatOogieBoogie

Not counting the queen's gambit here is my list, not in any order:

Sound list:

1.Tal Gambit

2.Benko Gambit

(okay, the first two are in order, rest are sound but no particular order):

3.Marshall Attack

4.Smith-Morra

5.Manhattan Gambit

6.Williamsburg/Brooklyn Gambit (my personal invention ^_^ )

7.The Bird Wing ^_^ (another innovation from me ^_^ as well as the Lightning Countergambit which mixes the wing gambit with the From Gambit... speaking of which)

8.The From Gambit.  In Schiller's Standard Chess Openings he says there are two reasons why 1.f4 isn't that good, and both begin with 1...e5, although I personally prefer 1...d5 (for the reversed Manhattan Gambit) and 1...c5 (though no one ever plays the Bird Wing against me =(  ), especially 1...c5 as De Firmian recommends it.

9.Reti Gambit

10.Staunton Gambit

11.Evans' (or Evan's?  so is it from Evan or Evans?) Gambit.

Questionable sacrifices that make things more difficult for the gambiteer, but should still be a draw with best play.  These are wasted whites at best:

1.Blackmar-Diemer Gambit

2.King's Gambit

3.Wing Gambit (though the Bird Wing is sound as the e-pawn isn't committed to e4 there so the ...d5 strike doesn't force concessions from white)

4.That gambit in the French with a bishop move, forgot the name.

Unsound gambits:

These should be a forced loss

1.Englund Gambit

2.Latvian Gambit

3.1.f4,f5 2.g4 or 2.e4

I can't think of any more. 

JustinJ_FairfieldU
TheGreatOogieBoogie wrote:

Not counting the queen's gambit here is my list, not in any order:

Sound list:

1.Tal Gambit

2.Benko Gambit

(okay, the first two are in order, rest are sound but no particular order):

3.Marshall Attack

4.Smith-Morra

5.Manhattan Gambit

6.Williamsburg/Brooklyn Gambit (my personal invention ^_^ )

7.The Bird Wing ^_^ (another innovation from me ^_^ as well as the Lightning Countergambit which mixes the wing gambit with the From Gambit... speaking of which)

8.The From Gambit.  In Schiller's Standard Chess Openings he says there are two reasons why 1.f4 isn't that good, and both begin with 1...e5, although I personally prefer 1...d5 (for the reversed Manhattan Gambit) and 1...c5 (though no one ever plays the Bird Wing against me =(  ), especially 1...c5 as De Firmian recommends it.

9.Reti Gambit

10.Staunton Gambit

11.Evans' (or Evan's?  so is it from Evan or Evans?) Gambit.

Questionable sacrifices that make things more difficult for the gambiteer, but should still be a draw with best play.  These are wasted whites at best:

1.Blackmar-Diemer Gambit

2.King's Gambit

3.Wing Gambit (though the Bird Wing is sound as the e-pawn isn't committed to e4 there so the ...d5 strike doesn't force concessions from white)

4.That gambit in the French with a bishop move, forgot the name.

Unsound gambits:

These should be a forced loss

1.Englund Gambit

2.Latvian Gambit

3.1.f4,f5 2.g4 or 2.e4

I can't think of any more. 

have an oppion on the albin's counter gambit?  It works great in blitz but I always get trashed when I try it in longer time controls

sammynouri

I forget the name, but I managed to win with this two out of four times (unrated games of course, I'm not that crazy).