What is the best way to attack the Hippopotamus Defense??

Exactly, and maybe if X_Player_J put more of the intelligence he obviously has into learning the basics then he could come back with proper analysis. 

Well, i agree with UhOhSpaghettio1 that Bc4 and f3 are not the best moves against the double fianchetto (against Nh6 + f6 saemisch seems to be the best), however, personal attacks, no thanks. Refute his variations, (preferable using diagrams), more is not needed.

I think this video from ChessNetwork is the answer

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YsMBHySzkC8

Lets just see how proper analysis looks like according to Uhohspaghettio1 that is?

Notice how Uhohspaghettio1 agree's with what Fiveofswords has said from above with the next post.

He agree's with Fiveofswords that playing d5 later on when black's position is more solid.

I never agrued that playing d5 later on is terrible by black I just said in that position it was not the best which was at move 7.

He also agree's with Fiveofswords that playing f5 and c5 are the more standard pawn breaks

Which I have been saying all along.

Now notice his previous post number 21

Now he is contradicting himself. He said d5 is ok to play at move 7 when the black king is in the middle of the board and now he is agreeing with Fiveofsword who said d5 should be played later when position is more "SOLID"

I'm sorry but having your king in the middle of the board playing d5 is not considered solid in that position.

Which is why I said playing d5 in that position is illogical. The black king can not castle kingside for 3 more moves. An he has 3 more moves till he can castle queen side and he wants to play the move d5 at move 7?

At move 1 he played d6  at move 7 he plays d5. White is fixing to castle and can still castle kingside faster than black if white wished to. Black should be trying to play the move d5 at move 7.

Which is what I said on my post 18.

Notice post number 18

My analysis I will admit is not Grand Master worthy. However, his analysis is non-existant.

He than put his idea on a computer engine Houdini and look what Houdini thinks.

If it is a toss up between d5 or c5 than it doesn't prove I'm wrong any more than it proves your right. I did say c5 is one of their standard break's.

I than put the same position on the computer engine StockFish

An Stockfish doesn't like d5 or c5 as its top move's in this specific position.

Depth 26

First recommended choice is the move 7...Nf6

The move 7...Nf6 fights for control over the d5 square with a piece with out commiting any pawn to d5 yet.

Second choice is the move 7...b5

The move 7...b5 kicks trys to kick the bishop from targetting the d5 square as well as gaining a tempo on the bishop. Discouraging a queen side castle since the black pawns would be further up the board.

Third choice is the move 7...d5

The move 7...d5 occupys the d5 square with a black pawn which trying to stop its influence by white.

Fourth choice is the move 7...c5

The move 7...c5 the way it fights the d5 square is actually very unique. It fights for the d5 square by counter attacking the d4 square. Bascially it is trying to provoke the white d4 pawn to push itself to d5 so that black can than play e5 closing down the position.

See I am trying to get the influence/control over d5 I can't use it with a piece's if their is a pawn their. I want a piece their. So by playing c5 it provokes d5 trying to get white to place a pawn their and not a piece.

So you see the move 7.Bc4 by me is useful/doing something. An even though chess engines get a bad wrap for not being the greatest in closed position's or in chess opening's.

Its funny that the engine isn't allowing me to try and gain control of the d5 square. It isn't completely stupid. It see's what I am doing and it is trying to stop me.

Now you may wonder well why on earth am I fighting for the d5 square? Why on earth is the computer fighting against me for the d5 square? Did I just pick that square at random from a hat? No!!

Think about where my pieces are going to be located at.

I want to castle queen side in this white line. Rememeber?

Where will my pieces be concentrated at?

• Queen will be on d2 allowing me to castle queenside
• Rook will be on d1 after I castle queenside
• Knight will be on c3 its best square
• I put my Bishop on c4
• My e4 pawn is attacking d5

5 concentrated piece's on a single location. Which will cause my opponent to respond. So naturally just by doing my development my pieces will already be directly or indirectly hitting D5.

Now you probably have seen my game already and you might say well thats ludacris and I don't mean the Rapper. Who fights for the d5 square like that.

My opponent was no dummy!

Now watch the game again.

Move 13 what is the strongest move in the position by white?

The move d5!! If I win that square I win the game.

What if white plays a stupid move like 13.a3 what will black do?

He will play d5!!

People are probably thinking really? Uhohspaghettio1 probably saying this guy so full of crap you can't win a chess game by playing the move d5.

Just tell me who won the game?

My opponent faught very hard to stop me from having a piece on d5. He even closed it down so a piece couldn't go to d5. In doing so he allowed 2 new weak square's. Do you see them? 1 of them helped support a piece that delivered the mate.

Oh come on, I'm not going to read all that. What dreamworld are you living in you think I'm going to engage in analysis with you after everything I said? You were also saying and heavily suggesting things that are completely different to what you are now, this is part of the nonsense. Stupidly saying that I said this or that when I clearly didn't, or that you were actually saying something else. Don't tell me what you were saying to refresh my memory, I know exactly what you were saying, my memory is fine. And you are full of crap as always.  

The only thing I have to say is that Fiveofswords actually edited his post to include that last sentence, just so he wouldn't be agreeing too much with me. I had my post posted before he made his edit. Otherwise I would not have said "exactly". It doesn't make much difference anyway, it's obvious what I meant. You've serious issues and I'm not able to help you address them.  

HAHHHAAHHAHHHHAHAHAHAHHAAHAHHAHAHAAH

At post number 10 Uh Oh Spaghettio1 said the below text commenting to my previous post on post 8-9.

At no point did Uh Oh Spaghettio acknowledge the OP of the forum with his suggestion of what the OP should play against the Hippo Defence. In fact if the poor OP of this thread had been holding his breathe waiting to hear Uhohspaghettio1 analysis he would of died from lack of oxygen. For no analysis has been presented by Uhohspaghettio1.

Uhohspaghettio1 than begin to try and criticize my analysis and suggestion's. Saying I'm full of crap and bunch of other random tales.

Than he began to try and disprove my moves with alternative one's yet it came to no success for. The engine liked my moves as much as his alternative move's.

An by his own words "The moves are a toss up" Showing both moves are being considered reasonable move's. Which only demonstrate his efforts to discredit me has failed.

Than lastly I take it to the chess forum community. Notice the post which is now shown on post number 53

An now on post 53 notice the red text highlighted he has decided not to read what I am saying.

HAHAHAHAHHAAHHAHAHHHAAHAHAHAH

This speaks volumes lady's and gentlemen. Would you speak to a person who you tryed to prove wrong than ended up failing miserably. Nope

Which is why Uhohspaghettio1 doesn't want to read what I have to say or what I speak. Very wise choice by Uhohspaghettio1.

An now on post 53 notice the green text highlighted "What dreamworld are you living in you think I'm going to engage in analysis with you after everything I said"

I bring this issue to the people Uhohspaghettio1 said Engaging in analysis?

What analysis?

I have yet to see Uhohspaghettio1 provide any.

Is he talking about my analysis? that he said was terrible?

If you can not handle the heat Uhohspaghettio1 than you should not go in the kitchen.

Do not say someone's analysis is terrible if you have no intention on showing any.

It is like telling a cook in a kitchen his food is terrible and yours is better than running away lol becuase the kitchen is to hot?

Who does such a thing?

quoting Wooloomooloo2:

"I got a lot more out of his posts than yours."

As Uhohspaghettio1 rightly points out, there are novice players listening who might think xplayerj is giving decent analysis. We ought to give them a warning at least.

PerfectConscience, are you one to talk with a sub-1400 rating, discussing that someone who is definitely a couple classes ahead of you, is inferior on his ideas?  Since you are "warning" us, why don't you put your money where your mouth is and provide input?  Show your analysis and "Warn" us.

@BirdBrain:

I'm not active here. I suppose you got me.

Coming to the "topic":

The problem with xplayer is, he thinks he's very knowledgeable, but he isn't in actual fact. It gets worse when he starts to show off his "knowledge".

But this is a general discussion, and he is allowed to show his analysis.  I am not saying his is superior to someone's who might be a lot higher rated than him, but as a GM once told me, it is more important to discuss concrete evaluations, rather than generalities, which I was guilty of.  X_player is discussing specific ideas, so it would be important, if you feel he is wrong, to show where he is wrong with concrete variations and analysis, to further feed the discussion.

Hey, X_Player_J_X, can we get a twitter version?

Hey, Uhohspaghettio1, can we get a "sorry for personal attacks" ?

The problem isn't him giving his opinions, it's how he speaks authoratively like he's teaching others when most of it is either way off the mark or just plain wrong.

Ok, so perhaps the best way is to either play a game to demonstrate ideas, or hash out analysis, but instead of using negative verbage, illustrate your ideas and allow him to do likewise, and then allow other players to make their own conclusions.

Why can't we all just get along?? lol, no in all seriousness, I honestly did not think this innocuous topic would get such heated debates.  

I think the guy that posted ChessNetwork's video was the best post.  

Muchas gracias sir.

Sorry folks.  @XJ_Whatever is an unmitigated windbag.  A fact readily available to any disinterested reader.

@Spaghettio is on the mark, yet again.  It seems odd, but I'm agreeing with him these days.  

Read this book instead, and forget about this crazy thread --

http://www.amazon.com/Hippopotamus-Rises-Re-Emergence-Opening-Batsford/dp/0713489898/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1430765707&sr=1-1&keywords=chess+hippo

Glad I bought it when published.  Those current Amazon prices are ridiculous.

P.S., the best way to attack the Hippo is SLOWLY, and you absolutely must find a way to open up the position.  Much easier said than done.

You really don't have a choice in the matter, unless your opponent is a weak chess player.

The biggest problem with the Hippo is that nobody knows how to use it properly.  People that think it can legitimately be used as a catch-all defense are horribly mistaking.

The Hippo only works when White has committed to a4 and/or Bc4 (preferably both - as usually if Bc4 but not a4 is played, Black will play ...b5 (the other 5 pawns all going to the 6th rank).

So for starters, lines with an early f4 basically bust the Hippo.  The hippo relies on White not having a large center, such as in 1.e4 g6 2.d4 Bg7 3.Nc3 d6 4.Nf3 a6 5.a4 - Now the Hippo is a valid weapon.  But if White has a big center, like 1.e4 g6 2.d4 Bg7 3.Nc3 d6 4.f4! a6, Black must follow up with moves like ...b5, ...Nbd7, ...Bb7, and ...c5 or he will get killed.

If for some reason the Austrian Attack is not your thing, and you must allow it, don't waste time with a4.  If you must, then White's idea is to be patient, make black run out of waiting moves, and the moment he puts a Knight on f6 or c6, or does anything else that allows you to push d5 or e5 with tempo, you do, then push the other pawn, even if it's a sacrifice, to break up the center.  You don't want to push d5 or e5 too early as that gives Black a French type of position (if e5) or King's Indian type of position (if d5) and a clear plan of attack for Black.  White wants to blow open the center with Black's lack of space.

But again, an early f4 makes the Hippo extremely dubious, if not outright bad!  You just need to make sure you know what to do against transpositions to the Pirc (with ...Nf6) or what to do against legit lines of the modern against the Austrian, like the lines with b5, Nbd7, Bb7, and c5.

As kingmagikarp points out, chessnetwork has made a video on this subject: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YsMBHySzkC8. The only problem is that he tells you you must start with 1. d4, although, lucky for me, that's what I always do anyway!

me too! :)

I do not have a title so I do not have any authority.

I was simply expressing/giving opinions of lines I play.

The queen side piece's usually never get altered in these system's. I showed.

The king side pieces on the other hand can be altered depending on your idea and plan. Which usually are the Light square bishop and Kings Knight.

To understand how to beat the Hippo Defence you must first know how they play it.

They are trained/hardwired to close down the position. All the pawn moves they make are in an effort to keep things closed down.

People often wonder how can black get away with all of these pawn moves? Well simple white can not take advantage of all those wasted pawn moves if the position is not open. They will close it down. An in closed position's their wasted pawn moves are given justification.

Notice the green and red arrow's.

If you play your H pawn all the way to h5 they will respond with g5 closing down the position.

If you play your G pawn all the way to g5 they will respond with h5 closing down the position.

If you play d5 they will respond with e5

If you play e5 they will respond with d5

The pawns are placed in such a way that they meet your response with a way to close the position(Lock the position). Now here is the brillance of their plan. Once the position becomes locked down in the center for example the play than begins on the Wings.

Now let me give you an example of another position completely different. This is a position where the white player might be just using Chess Princples and is completely unaware of what black is going to do.

It looks pretty good white has nice central pieces he has got very solid center. All kinds of support. The problem is his pieces can not become effective until the position opens up. It looks like white is doing great. But soon you will see how bad it starts to get when he starts pushing his center pawn's.

If you remember I said main pawn breaks for black are F5 and C5 of one of those pawn breaks. In this example white plays d5 trying to open things up see how black responses with e5. Picture below. Than starts to do the F5 pawn break to target the base(e4 pawn) of the pawn chain.

Now the placement of Blacks pieces become stronger than whites piece placement becuase. White pieces were positioned in spots where things open up. Well when the board becomes locked in the center with pawns locked. You than start to play on the wings. Whichs f5 and c5 become the breaks. Now you see how the black knights and pieces start adding extreme pressure on the white center. An the white king is on this side. Black might even have idea's of doing a pawn roller similar to a Kings Indian Defence or Pirc type of position. Just storming the white king. An when black castles kingside his rook will than be on the F file which might be open file bearing down pressure on the white king.

Now this example here looked very natural set up for white. An Yet white is having problems here. What can white do? He is on the ropes in this position he has nothing he can attack. No Counter play. Which is why I prefer the other line.

Now take look at the position in the below line I was recommending.

Now it looks like the same position doesn't it? Why on earth would I recommend this line? Well their is a subtle difference here do you see it?

White is playing a trick here. Can you see it? Oh Lord please mister black don't play f5 here. We are terrifed of f5 in this position. Black is probably licking his lips thinking he has got his wonderful position to crush us. However, are we really terrified? HEHEHEHE the black player is going to play his f5 move to his own demise. Do you see how?

We don't have a king on g1 its on b1. Look how safe our king looks. If he plays f5 we are going to open up the position. We are going to swing a rook to g1.

He is going to do an attack right into our rook's. Its like a chicken jumping inside of an oven. Do you see the sucide that is happening here. After the e4 pawn moves our bishop is hitting all the way to h7 in some cases. Other bishop hitting h6. 2 rooks blasting at him. It would be crazy for black to castle kingside here. Some inexperince Hippo players will do it thinking they got their plan to work only to get checkmated a little later lol.

As you can see by some of the different post I have made

The Light square bishop can go to c4, d3, sometimes it goes to e2, sometimes it gets delayed, and other times it goes to h3.

The placement usually depends on the situation.

In my game I played it to c4 to provoke a weakness or  get control of the d5 square.

In the above examples it went to d3 to try and hit into the black king side.

It sometimes goes to e2 to support the F pawn and sometimes it goes their to trade itself off. It also allows white to connect their rook's.

Other times it gets delayed till white figures out what the best spot for it is.

Lastly I have seen some people play their bishop to h3 to try and Hijack the h3 to c8 diagonal. Black puts his bishop on b7 leaving that diagonal open and I have seen some players play their bishop to h3 with idea of getting it to like e6 in some cases. Which is supported by the d5 pawn. Other times it goes to h3 just to get traded off by a knight. Since most of whites pawns are on light squares and usually knights are better in closed position's.

So their are alot of different idea's that can be done with the Light Square bishop. I don't think their is an absolute right or wrong approach with it.

Also the Kings knight has funny manuvers as well. It goes to e2 than from their it has several moves. It can go to g3, c1-b3 or d3,f4

You can play this line against alot of lines.

The examples I showed I believe are of the 150 attack. I think thats the name of it I always confuse that ones name. It can be played against the Pirc, Modern Defence, Hippo Defence

If the C pawn moves than it is called the Saemisch type of position usually played against the Kings Indian Defence. However, they have been using it against other lines as well if I remember right.

Its got the same idea's of like a Yugoslav Attack(played against Sicilian Dragon), English Attack(played against Sicilian Najdorf), 150 Attack(played against Modern Defense/Pirc Defence), Saemisch(played against KID) their all very similar.

I guess the point is you can use it against alot of system not only the Hippo. So its not like a wasted line you only use once.I play it against anything passive.

An I could keep talking about the Hippo obviously not every Hippo Defence player is inexperinced and are just going to let you castle queenside and have you attack them with this opening. Some Hippo players are rather smart lol. They see what your doing and are like I'm going to castle queen side or they try to get counter play by attacking queen side. Not all of them are idiot's.

An if you play e5 they will play d5 and try and undermine your base with the c5 pawn break. You can't just dismiss the Hippo Defence. Obviously Hippo Defence players have some success with it otherwise no one would play it. It would never be heard of.

An not to mention but Hippo's in real life are very deadly creatures they kill more people than sharks and alot of other animals. I think they are like number 1 in animals that kill people. Obviously they could of named this Defence the Rabbit Defence something cute and cuddly that doesn't crush you but they didn't they named it the Hippo Defence becuase it can be a killer.

An if all you do is play 1 line against the Hippo Defence and its a line you use that is only played against the Hippo Defence. The chances of you rememeber your line when a Hippo Defence shows up is not even remote. You'll bloody forget what to do.

Obvious the lines I am showing you can be played against other system's keeping it fresh in your mind. How often will you come across the Hippo defence to even rememeber a line. You have to have a line that you can play that stays fresh with you. The Hippo Defence player you will play against has surplus of line knowledge. He probably play that position over 5k+ times. An you are sitting their trying to rememeber what you should play against it. A line you rarely play once in a blue moon. An he is totally going to crush you becuase you'll forget.

I'm not trying to be authoritive just insightful. You should def play a line you are familar with. I play this line against over 7-8 lines and since I play it against alot of lines it stays fresh in my mind. However, if you don't than you should not listen to what I'm saying. You should play a line your more familar with that might be reasonable against the Hippo.

I might be suggesting a line but if you rarely play it than you are not going to remember everything. You might forget. Than you are going to try and remember and it might cost you some time on the clock giving you time pressure. Its a very taxing thing. An I didn't figure I needed to say that. I figured you would take those into your own considerations but since Uhohspaghettio1 believes I need a warning. Well than their you go. You need to take those considerations into prespective. This is a good line but not if you only play it only once every year lol. Against a Hippo Defence Player

An I saw some other posters on this forum who gave links to videos by Jerry from chessnetwork. I thought that line looked good as well.

His line looks very similar to the Bayonet Attack line against the KID. So if you play the Bayonet Attack against the KID than you can consider doing a similar thing against the Hippo.

Do you see how you can try and fit these lines into a nice chess repertoire for you. An if people believe your to low ranked to have a chess repertoire well than you tell them to worry about their own chess repertoire their is enough their to keep them busy. Unless their an Ex-World Champion or Magnus Carlsen they have no room to talk.

An I was going to show the C5 pawn break but it doesn't seem to be letting me write any more. I guess their is a post max limit of words I don't know. Well hopefully you can get the idea. They play d5 against e5 than try and undermine with c5.

Good analysis.  You restrained your claims, but not your prose, @XJ.

That's a new look for you.