Whats with all of the low rated coaches on Chess.com???

Sort:
Oldest
KvothDuval

and he also says that he beat GM Nigel Short 

im sure that is Short of the truth

PhoenixTTD
pt22064 wrote:

I disagree that rating is the sole determinant as to whether one can be a competent coach. I also disagree that it is not possible to be an effective coach for someone having a higher rating. Indeed, in many sports (e.g., tennis), coaches of the very top players cannot beat their students. However, this does not mean they cannot help their students improve. Often, the best coaches were not the best players at the sport or game that they coach. Being able to evaluate a student's weaknesses, understanding how to develop training regimens personalized for particular students and communicating/explaining concepts well are attributes of a good coach/teacher. Top players do not necessarily have these traits.

This is true at the higher levels, but not the lower ones.  Of course Carlsen, Anand, Kramnik etc. are going to have seconds (coaches) that do not play as well as they do.  However these seconds have the fundamentals mastered, have strengths, and have experience.  People in decline make good coaches.  They don't compete at as high a level anymore because of time, or aging or whatever but they know what it is like.  There is a huge difference between having a lower rated GM or master help you analyse or go over your openings, and a class D patzer passing on his bad habits.

Ziryab

There's a world of difference between beginners offering coaching and strong class players. It is true that a master or above is best, but also true that master level chess skill is insufficient when one is a bad teacher.

I'm a listed coach, and my USCF rating is barely over 1900 USCF. Moreover, I have been coaching since I was a C Class player.

Have I passed on bad information to young players? More than likely. Would they be better off with a master teaching them? Absolutely.

Will schools in an area where the highest rated players are mid-1900s hire masters to come to their school to teach first graders how the horsey moves? No. Will parents of these children hire masters who coach online? For the most part, no.

I coach beginners up to about C Class. When young players get to this level, I urge them to hire a master level coach. I started coaching my son's school team thirteen years ago as a parent volunteer. The other two dads have not played tournament chess, and both were well-below my skill level. When my son was too old for his elementary school, they made me a paid coach because they wanted to keep me in the school working with the children there. I have taught many hundreds of children how the chess pieces move, how to castle, and how to checkmate with a queen and rook. I have taught essentially every child in a small town north of my city over the past ten years.

For 1/3 of the past year, I was the highest rated chess player in my city. I'm probably number four or five today, and my rating is perhaps 50 Elo below number one. If I don't coach, someone else who is a much weaker player will. 

JMB2010
Ziryab wrote:

There's a world of difference between beginners offering coaching and strong class players. It is true that a master or above is best, but also true that master level chess skill is insufficient when one is a bad teacher.

I'm a listed coach, and my USCF rating is barely over 1900 USCF. Moreover, I have been coaching since I was a C Class player.

Have I passed on bad information to young players? More than likely. Would they be better off with a master teaching them? Absolutely.

Will schools in an area where the highest rated players are mid-1900s hire masters to come to their school to teach first graders how the horsey moves? No. Will parents of these children hire masters who coach online? For the most part, no.

I coach beginners up to about C Class. When young players get to this level, I urge them to hire a master level coach. I started coaching my son's school team thirteen years ago as a parent volunteer. The other two dads have not played tournament chess, and both were well-below my skill level. When my son was too old for his elementary school, they made me a paid coach because they wanted to keep me in the school working with the children there. I have taught many hundreds of children how the chess pieces move, how to castle, and how to checkmate with a queen and rook. I have taught essentially every child in a small town north of my city over the past ten years.

For 1/3 of the past year, I was the highest rated chess player in my city. I'm probably number four or five today, and my rating is perhaps 50 Elo below number one. If I don't coach, someone else who is a much weaker player will. 

I agree with most of your other points besides this one. I think that rating doesn't mean much towards coaching skill. I think someone who is your rating could easily be a much better coach than any master. For example, I know that I would probably be a terrible coach. I might get frustrated, or, more likely, just not know how to do it correctly.

WGF79

It's not hard to coach: Tell em to do a lot of tactics and endgames and you're already an OKish coach that will improve people's strenght if they follow you. Now can I have my 5 $ coaching fee plz ?

Ziryab
JMB2010 wrote:
Ziryab wrote:

There's a world of difference between beginners offering coaching and strong class players. It is true that a master or above is best, but also true that master level chess skill is insufficient when one is a bad teacher.

I'm a listed coach, and my USCF rating is barely over 1900 USCF. Moreover, I have been coaching since I was a C Class player.

Have I passed on bad information to young players? More than likely. Would they be better off with a master teaching them? Absolutely.

Will schools in an area where the highest rated players are mid-1900s hire masters to come to their school to teach first graders how the horsey moves? No. Will parents of these children hire masters who coach online? For the most part, no.

I coach beginners up to about C Class. When young players get to this level, I urge them to hire a master level coach. I started coaching my son's school team thirteen years ago as a parent volunteer. The other two dads have not played tournament chess, and both were well-below my skill level. When my son was too old for his elementary school, they made me a paid coach because they wanted to keep me in the school working with the children there. I have taught many hundreds of children how the chess pieces move, how to castle, and how to checkmate with a queen and rook. I have taught essentially every child in a small town north of my city over the past ten years.

For 1/3 of the past year, I was the highest rated chess player in my city. I'm probably number four or five today, and my rating is perhaps 50 Elo below number one. If I don't coach, someone else who is a much weaker player will. 

I agree with most of your other points besides this one. I think that rating doesn't mean much towards coaching skill. I think someone who is your rating could easily be a much better coach than any master. For example, I know that I would probably be a terrible coach. I might get frustrated, or, more likely, just not know how to do it correctly.

Certainly a Russian FM with minimal English language skills is not the best coach for the Anglo-Americans in my neck of the woods, even if his understanding is vastly superior to my own. Even so, there is a lot to be said for treating untitled players with suspicion as coaches.

(My alma mater beat USC yesterday at football. My school's coach never played collegiate football.) 

PhoenixTTD

@Ziryab, there are different kinds of coaches.  School coaching where organization and leadership trump chess knowlege and it is just a way to pass a period or an after school activity is one thing.  These are not aspiring masters.  Obviously most people are taught how to play chess initially by patzers (not calling you one).  We learn from parents, siblings, friends, etc.  However that is not what people are talking about when they are asking about advertised coaching.  These are people who aready know how to play, who already study, and are looking to improve to a high level.  I don't think class players are good enough for this.  Maybe the only 1900 in the small town as a very short term assignment for the young player.

Doc_Detroit
sxdx wrote:

When i first started taking otb chess seriously, i was fortunate enough to meet a very nice man (no homo)


LOL

Ziryab

@PhoenixTTD, That's my point. Up to a certian skill level, strong and even average class players are adequate.

Teaching skill is primary, and every teacher must understand his or her limitations. Even a Grandmaster must understand that he or she is not all knowing.

I'm thinking about a master who has made a lot of videos for Chess.com. He may be a fine coach in his native Russian, perhaps even exceptional. He should not be making videos in English. 

VLaurenT
jadarite wrote:
hicetnunc wrote:

I'm 2000 and I wouldn't coach people over 1700. I recommend they go with stronger players.

Ok, that's interesting.  1800 or 1900?

At 1800 level, go for a 2200+ level teacher. That's because the level of technical expertise required increases.

ItsEoin

As part-time work I teach traveller kids in a special school just down the road from me chess. They're kind of a special case, because they're very badly treated by the school system and people in general here, and the vast majority will not get schooling beyond 6th grade. Most of them have no father figure (either dead / imprisoned) and <90% end up with a criminal record.

It's pretty much a disaster, but what's really interesting is how bright most of them are, and especially how quickly they take to chess. I've ended up being almost a father figure to a lot of them, which is mental, but kind of sweet, too.

The point is that two of my students got 2 + 2.5 / 6, respectively, in the u-1200 section in a recent weekender. I paid their entry and housed them, as well as helped them out + supervised their play. I do all of this for free, because a) these kids don't get jack shit in life, and b) it really makes me feel great. These two will go on to do secondary school, and they both have an idea about college. It's mad. 

The gist of this isn't to big myself up, really. I'm just trying to illustrate how much pleasure / satisfaction you can get out of teaching someone chess, and to encourage people to give it a go - for free, if possible. I'm nowhere near a very strong player, but I can teach them the basics, and I'll definitely refer them on to a stronger coach later. Compare this to the 850 rated, middle class white kid charging $15 an hour on chess.com, and I just don't have a lot of sympathy for such a con artist. I think there should be some sort of screening implemented by chess.com for anyone who isn't a titled player, to verify their intentions. Just my $0.02, on a subject I feel very strongly about.

Ziryab
ItsEoin wrote:

 I think there should be some sort of screening implemented by chess.com for anyone who isn't a titled player, to verify their intentions. 

That might confer a minimum of credibility for the coach listings service on this site.

Ziggyblitz

I can see how a lower rated player could coach effectively by using a good coaching manual and a computer program for game analysis.

Doubtless coach and student would be learning together.

DrFrank124c
Ziryab wrote:

@PhoenixTTD, That's my point. Up to a certian skill level, strong and even average class players are adequate.

Teaching skill is primary, and every teacher must understand his or her limitations. Even a Grandmaster must understand that he or she is not all knowing.

I'm thinking about a master who has made a lot of videos for Chess.com. He may be a fine coach in his native Russian, perhaps even exceptional. He should not be making videos in English. 

Some of the masters who make videos for this site have fine reputations  as players but their accents are so thick it is very hard to understand them. Maybe they should take english lessons before they give chess lessons.

SebLeb0210

LOL I once saw someone rated 700 and he was trying to coach ! Laughing

ItsEoin

At least he had a rating

Fischer1Fan

The irony is high within ItsEoin :P

KvothDuval
SebLeb0210 wrote:

LOL I once saw someone rated 700 and he was trying to coach ! 

LOL we are all talking about you...

KvothDuval
SebLeb0210 wrote:

LOL I once saw someone rated 700 and he was trying to coach ! 

you are rated 770 and are trying (and failing) to coach...

WayneT

I would love to be a coach. I like to help people, but if I start coaching at my "lofty" level, I'd be harming them instead.

Forums
Forum Legend
Following
New Comments
Locked Topic
Pinned Topic