Which diagonals have names?

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Sqod

Interesting system, Ghost. The main problem I see with that system is that each of those summation numbers corresponds to two different diagonals. For example #6 could mean the "Vienna Diagonal" or "Bogo-Indian Diagonal". It wouldn't be hard to invent a prefix to specify which way the diagonal was running, as your "left" and "right" prefixes do, but another drawback is that those numbers aren't exactly intuitive.

LOWER LEFT TO UPPER RIGHT

(1) LIGHT

a8-a8     a8                        1   #16
a6-c8     a6-b7-c8                  3   #14
a4-e8     a4-b5-c6-d7-e8            5                     "Spanish Diagonal"   #12
a2-g8     a2-b3-c4-d5-e6-f7-g8      7                     Italian Diagonal   #10
b1-h7     b1-c2-d3-e4-f5-g6-h7      7                     "Classic Diagonal"   #8
d1-h5     d1-e2-f3-g4-h5            5                     "Vienna Diagonal"   #6
f1-h3     f1-g2-h3                  3   #4
h1-h1     h1                        1   #2

(2) DARK


a7-b8     a7-b8                     2   #15
a5-d8     a5-b6-c7-d8               4                     "Cambridge Diagonal"   #13
a3-f8     a3-b4-c5-d6-e7-f8         6   #11
a1-h8     a1-b2-c3-d4-e5-f6-g7-h8   8   "Larsen Diagonal"   #9
c1-h6     c1-d2-e3-f4-g5-h6         6   #7
e1-h4     e1-f2-g3-h4               4                     "Fool's Mate Diagonal"   #5
g1-h2     g1-h2                     2   #3

UPPER LEFT TO LOWER RIGHT

(1) LIGHT


g8-h7     g8-h7                     2   #15
e8-h5     e8-f7-g6-h5               4                     "Scholar's Mate Diagonal"   #13
c8-h3     c8-d7-e6-f5-g4-h3         6   #11
a8-h1     a8-b7-c6-d5-e4-f3-g2-h1   8    "Hungarian Diagonal"   #9
a6-f1     a6-b5-c4-d3-e2-f1         6   #7
a4-d1     a4-b3-c2-d1               4                     "Rubinstein Diagonal"   #5
a2-b1     a2-b1                     2   #3

(2) DARK


a1-a1     a1                        1   #2
a3-c1     a3-b2-c1                  3   #4
a5-e1     a5-b4-c3-d2-e1            5                     "Bogo-Indian Diagonal"   #6
a7-g1     a7-b6-c5-d4-e3-f2-g1      7   #8
b8-h2     b8-c7-d6-e5-f4-g3-h2      7   #10
d8-h4     d8-e7-f6-g5-h4            5   #12
f8-h6     f8-g7-h6                  3   #14
h8-h8     h8                        1   #16

leiph18
J-Star-Roar wrote:
leiph18 wrote:

Ok, seems good.

Playing games also helps. If you get killed on the b1-h7 diagonal, you may not have named it but it's going to stick in your memory :p

What Diagonals were you killed on?

The ones that connect to knights often have attacking themes.

When I say "connect to knights" I means e.g. b1-h7-g8-a2

All diagonals are familiar to me for themes from different openings and maneuvers.

To some extent this is also why players can name the color of squares. They (or at least I) associate them with ideas and or pieces and or moves.

ghostofmaroczy
Sqod presented:

Interesting system, Ghost. The main problem I see with that system is that each of those summation numbers corresponds to two different diagonals. For example #6 could mean the "Vienna Diagonal" or "Bogo-Indian Diagonal". It wouldn't be hard to invent a prefix to specify which way the diagonal was running, as your "left" and right "prefixes" do, but another drawback is that those numbers aren't exactly intuitive.

LOWER LEFT TO UPPER RIGHT

(1) LIGHT

a8-a8     a8                        1   #16
a6-c8     a6-b7-c8                  3   #14
a4-e8     a4-b5-c6-d7-e8            5                     "Spanish Diagonal"   #12
a2-g8     a2-b3-c4-d5-e6-f7-g8      7                     Italian Diagonal   #10
b1-h7     b1-c2-d3-e4-f5-g6-h7      7                     "Classic Diagonal"   #8
d1-h5     d1-e2-f3-g4-h5            5                     "Vienna Diagonal"   #6
f1-h3     f1-g2-h3                  3   #4
h1-h1     h1                        1   #2

(2) DARK


a7-b8     a7-b8                     2   #15
a5-d8     a5-b6-c7-d8               4                     "Cambridge Diagonal"   #13
a3-f8     a3-b4-c5-d6-e7-f8         6   #11
a1-h8     a1-b2-c3-d4-e5-f6-g7-h8   8   "Larsen Diagonal"   #9
c1-h6     c1-d2-e3-f4-g5-h6         6   #7
e1-h4     e1-f2-g3-h4               4                     "Fool's Mate Diagonal"   #5
g1-h2     g1-h2                     2   #3

UPPER LEFT TO LOWER RIGHT

(1) LIGHT


g8-h7     g8-h7                     2   #15
e8-h5     e8-f7-g6-h5               4                     "Scholar's Mate Diagonal"   #13
c8-h3     c8-d7-e6-f5-g4-h3         6   #11
a8-h1     a8-b7-c6-d5-e4-f3-g2-h1   8    "Hungarian Diagonal"   #9
a6-f1     a6-b5-c4-d3-e2-f1         6   #7
a4-d1     a4-b3-c2-d1               4                     "Rubinstein Diagonal"   #5
a2-b1     a2-b1                     2   #3

(2) DARK


a1-a1     a1                        1   #2
a3-c1     a3-b2-c1                  3   #4
a5-e1     a5-b4-c3-d2-e1            5                     "Bogo-Indian Diagonal"   #6
a7-g1     a7-b6-c5-d4-e3-f2-g1      7   #8
b8-h2     b8-c7-d6-e5-f4-g3-h2      7   #10
d8-h4     d8-e7-f6-g5-h4            5   #12
f8-h6     f8-g7-h6                  3   #14
h8-h8     h8                        1   #16

The best aspect of the system is that odd numbers are light squares while even numbers are dark squares.

Sqod
ghostofmaroczy wrote:

The best aspect of the system is that odd numbers are light squares while even numbers are dark squares.

Yes, I have to admit that's a nice feature of your system. Actually I came up with my own coordinate system for diagonals, which is why my question was about names rather than coordinates/numbers: I'm lacking the knowledge to come up with appropriate names, especially relevant to openings. Still, alternative coordinate systems are good to have. It would be nice if someday in the future a phrase like "left #6 diagonal" would convey instant understanding as quickly as "g-file", for example.

ghostofmaroczy
Sqod values bishops:

Yes, I have to admit that's a nice feature of your system. Actually I came up with my own coordinate system for diagonals, which is why my question was about names rather than coordinates/numbers: I'm lacking the knowledge to come up with appropriate names, especially relevant to openings. Still, alternative coordinate systems are good to have. It would be nice if someday in the future a phrase like "left #6 diagonal" would convey instant understanding as quickly as "g-file", for example.

The only diagonals with any real significance are the two main diagonals.

All diagonals should be regarded according to how they relate to the two main diagonals.

Examples:

diagonal 6 left intersects c3

diagonal 6 right is one step off the main

Robert_New_Alekhine

I have never heard of any diagonals having any names, except in reference to the "long diagonals", the a1-h8 and h1-a8.

I think that it is perfectly fine to use names  such as b1-g8, c1-h6, etc.

Sqod
ghostofmaroczy wrote:

The only diagonals with any real significance are the two main diagonals.

Whew, you won't convince many masters of that. Certain diagonals are key to certain attacks in certain openings.

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(p. 77)
   In Winning Chess Strategies, the concept of the Classical Bishop Sac-
rifice or "The Greek Gift" was introduced. Numerous games feature this
combination, which can wreck the sturdiest-looking castled position. In
this chapter, I would like to explore this combinative theme in greater
(p. 78)
depth. We have to develop our arsenal of checkmating attacks to comple-
ment our knowledge of the mating patterns and this sacrifice is one in
which every player should become fluent. Let us see the Classical Bishop
Sacrifice in a skeletal setting. The following game is a creation in which
this combination is featured.

1.e4 e6 2.d4 d5 3.Nc3 Nf6 4. Bd3!?
   White's fourth move is not a particularly effective one. However, if
Black makes a mistake the d3-Bishop lies in wait to make an ambush.
Stronger moves are 4.e5 or 4.Bg5, pinning Black's Knight.
4...Bb4?!
   White's innocent fourth move has caused his opponent to mix opening
systems. A common mistake. Black should play 4...c5, with good chances
to equalize the game.
5.e5 Nfe7 6.Nf3 O-O??

rnbq1rk1/pppn1ppp/4p3/3pP3/1b1P4/2NB1N2/PPP2PPP/R1BQK2R w - - 6 3
DIAGRAM 62. White to Play

   The six moves just played result in Diagram 62. On the surface, every-
thing appears normal. Black has developed his Kingside pieces, castled
early, safely tucking away his King, an in general is comfortable with his
(p. 79)
game. In reality, Black has just put his King on the carving block! Yikes!
How did that happen? What "advantages" does White possess that permit
him to uncork a winning combination? The answer is not as obvious as
being ahead on material or having superior development or a wrecked
pawn structure. There are two keys at work here: The first and most im-
portant is that Black's h7-square is a potential weakness as it is defended
only by the King. White's e-pawn is performing important services: It
denies Black's Knight the f6-square, which would guard the h7-square.
White's Knight has free and clear access to the g5-square. Yet even these
advantages are not obvious enough to prompt a combinative adventure if
we are not familiar with the following Bishop Sacrifice:
7.Bxh7+!

Seirawan, Yasser. 2006. Winning Chess Combinations. London: Gloucester Publishers plc.

----------

(p. 134)
Sacrificing a Bishop at h7

(p. 134)
   The main participants here are the bishop, which attacks h7
from its post at d3, the queen on d1 which uses the diagonal to
transfer to the h-file, and the knight on f3 which leaps to g5 with
check. One of the most important parts of the combination is the
White pawn at e5. Since the Black bishop at e7 guards the
g5-square, the combination only succeeds because of the pawn
at h4 backed up by the rook at h1.

Palatnik, Sam, and Lev Alburt. 2013. Chess Tactics for the Tournament Player. New York, NY: Chess Information & Research Center.

----------

(p. 35)
      Philidor's Defence:
1 e4 e5 2 Nf3 d6

This is the strong point defence
reduced to its essentials. It has the
outstanding merit of that type of
game--solidity--and it has its
outstanding demerit--lack of
mobility.
   Black must be on his guard
against a number of traps, all
based on the weakness of f7 and
his cramped king position. On the
normal course 3 d4 Bg4? e.g.,
leads to the loss of a pawn after 4
dxe5 Bxf3 5 Qxf3 dxe5 6 Bc4
Nf6 7 Qb3 etc. Likewise on 3 d4
Nd7 4 Bc4 Be7 5 dxe5 dxe5 6
Qd5 is immediately disastrous.

Fine, Reuben. 1989. The Ideas Behind the Chess Openings, Algebraic Edition. New York: Random House, Inc.

Sqod
ghostofmaroczy wrote:

All diagonals should be regarded according to how they relate to the two main diagonals.

Examples:

diagonal 6 left intersects c3

diagonal 6 right is one step off the main

Maybe and maybe not. If you consider the chessboard as a coordinate system, then convention uses the lower left square, a1, as the origin, so that we get only positive coordinates. What you're suggesting is that when we create a new coordinate system for the diagonals that we suddenly change our origin to the center of the board, which will produce both positive and negative coordinates. Maybe that's good, but maybe that's not. One disadvantage of my suggested system is that if we start numbering diagonals from the extreme left edge as we do in orthogonal coordinates then we end up with the starting coordinate at the tip of our tilted board, which is annoying because only one diagonal of significance goes through that point (the other diagonal is a single square), which makes its relationship to other ranks, files, and diagonals hard to see. On the other hand, if we use your suggested origin, then we have to involve positive and negative numbers for left versus right of the origin.

ghostofmaroczy
Sqod addressed the topic of the main diagonal:

Maybe and maybe not. If you consider the chessboard as a coordinate system, then convention uses the lower left square, a1, as the origin, so that we get only positive coordinates. What you're suggesting is that when we create a new coordinate system for the diagonals that we suddenly change our origin to the center of the board, which will produce both positive and negative coordinates. Maybe that's good, but maybe that's not. One disadvantage of my suggested system is that if we start numbering diagonals from the extreme left edge as we do in orthogonal coordinates then we end up with the starting coordinate at the tip of our tilted board, which is annoying because only one diagonal of significance goes through that point (the other diagonal is a single square), which makes its relationship to other ranks, files, and diagonals hard to see. On the other hand, if we use your suggested origin, then we have to involve positive and negative numbers for left versus right of the origin.

A far better way for me to have stated it is:

All diagonals either:

intersect the main diagonal

are the main diagonal

are the original diagonal of a bishop

involve the queen giving check

or, consist of only two squares.

ghostofmaroczy

I feel it is essential to emphasize at some point the light versus dark parity and the reversible white player versus black player aspect.

Where the system of numbering diagonals which I described involves 26 diagonals with numbers ranging from 2 to 14, there are perhaps only 7 basic types.

In distinction from my previous post, the seven types could be denoted as:

peekaboo g1-h2

the fianchetto f1-h3

Fool's e1-h4

Bishop attacks Knight d1-h5

original diagonal of a Bishop c1-h6

the cheap pawn grab b1-h7

Main a1-h8

The seven basic types of course derive from the length.

sauncho

Sqod, don't let the naysayers get you down. I share with you the nomenclaturist's obsession, altough in my head I didn't stop with diagonals... Innocent Oh, of course people will riducule, and some will scornfully suggest we focus on chess instead of cockamamie irrelevance. Alan Watts called those people 'prickles'. But we're 'goos' and they might as well be speaking to brick walls. Smile

I was surprised and downhearted when I discovered there are so few of us. Given people's obsession with chess I figured that many regions, files and diagonals of the chessboard had been given pet names. I like your initiative. If we want to obsessively name things, that's our business, and they don't have to adopt our glossary! However, I think it should be a slow process, let's not name the diagonals willy-nilly. No! Committees have to be assembled, suggested names vetted, and I think there should be a balance between chess-related terms and more fancyful designations. And of course it can't be too contrived. Names with three terms like "The Cambridge Boulevard", although I like the metaphor of a diagonal being a boulevard, it wouldn't be catchy enough. But I've seen plenty of good suggestions, anchored in quotes from famous chess writers, Tartakover's "Imperial Highway" (a1-h8) and 'The Italian Diagonal" (a2-g8) (or 'Italian Corridor', my whimsy!) seem like slam dunks hehe.

Then, sqod, we write all this up and publish it on Wikipedia and make chess history. Tongue Out

Sqod

Thanks. Don't worry, I don't let naysayers get me down. In fact, just today I made great progress in documenting openings such that most of the important information--default moves, plans, common motifs, common mistakes, percentage outcomes, etc.--can be relatively succinctly included with those moves. That should be a *terrific* boost to anyone trying to learn a given opening, despite detractors criticizing (and not understanding) what I was trying to do a year ago (http://www.chess.com/forum/view/general/idea-for-opening-books-desired-next-move).

As for diagonal names, below is where I stand on the names for diagonals I use. Yes, I already use these names, though in quotes, in my comments of posted games on this site. I never heard of Imperial Highway, but I'll take your word for it and replace the name I had for that one. If you have a reference for that name, please provide it. By the way, I omitted any names suggested by apparent jokers and ridiculers in this tread. Being a troll carries a cost, as any wise person should realize.

----------

 

num. end       all                       # of                  English

name squares   squares                   squares               name

---- -------   -------                   ------                -------------------------

"HILLS" (from lower left to upper right)

 

LA   a8-a8     a8                        1 (a single square)

LB   a6-c8     a6-b7-c8                  3

LC   a4-e8     a4-b5-c6-d7-e8            5                     "Spanish Diagonal"

LD   a2-g8     a2-b3-c4-d5-e6-f7-g8      7                     Italian Diagonal

LE   b1-h7     b1-c2-d3-e4-f5-g6-h7      7                     "Classic Diagonal"

LF   d1-h5     d1-e2-f3-g4-h5            5                     "Vienna Diagonal"

LG   f1-h3     f1-g2-h3                  3

LH   h1-h1     h1                        1 (a single square)

 

DA   a7-b8     a7-b8                     2

DB   a5-d8     a5-b6-c7-d8               4                     "Caro-Kann Diagonal"

DC   a3-f8     a3-b4-c5-d6-e7-f8         6

DD   a1-h8     a1-b2-c3-d4-e5-f6-g7-h8   8 (a long diagonal)   Imperial Highway

DE   c1-h6     c1-d2-e3-f4-g5-h6         6                     "Yugoslav Diagonal"

DF   e1-h4     e1-f2-g3-h4               4                     "Fool's Mate Diagonal"

DG   g1-h2     g1-h2                     2

 

"DALES" (from upper left to lower right)

 

L7   g8-h7     g8-h7                     2

L6   e8-h5     e8-f7-g6-h5               4                     "Scholar's Diagonal"

L5   c8-h3     c8-d7-e6-f5-g4-h3         6

L4   a8-h1     a8-b7-c6-d5-e4-f3-g2-h1   8 (a long diagonal)   "Hungarian Diagonal"

L3   a6-f1     a6-b5-c4-d3-e2-f1         6

L2   a4-d1     a4-b3-c2-d1               4                     "Rubinstein Diagonal"

L1   a2-b1     a2-b1                     2

 

D1   a1-a1     a1                        1 (a single square)

D2   a3-c1     a3-b2-c1                  3

D3   a5-e1     a5-b4-c3-d2-e1            5                     "Bogo-Indian Diagonal"

D4   a7-g1     a7-b6-c5-d4-e3-f2-g1      7                     "Pirc Diagonal"

D5   b8-h2     b8-c7-d6-e5-f4-g3-h2      7                     "Mason Diagonal"

D6   d8-h4     d8-e7-f6-g5-h4            5

D7   f8-h6     f8-g7-h6                  3

D8   h8-h8     h8                        1 (a single square)

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

DERIVATION OF ORIGINAL NAMES (alphabetical)

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

"Bogo-Indian Diagonal": diagonal where Black checks in the Bogo-Indian: 1. d4 Nf6 2. c4 e6 3. Nf3 Bb4+ 

"Caro-Kann Diagonal": diagonal along which Black's queen often attacks in the Caro-Kann Defense

"Classic Diagonal": diagonal along which White gets the Classic Bishop Sacrifice Bxf7+

"Fool's Mate Diagonal": diagonal on which White is mated in Fool's Mate: 1. f3 e5 2. g4 Qh4#

"Hungarian Diagonal": diagonal covered in the Hungarian Opening (Benko's Opening): 1. g3

Imperial Highway: suggested by Tartakover, per http://www.chess.com/forum/view/general/which-diagonals-have-names (12-1-15)

Italian Diagonal: diagonal covered in the Italian Game: 1. e4 e5 2. Nf3 Nc6 3. Bc4

"Mason Diagonal:" diagonal covered by White's QB in the Mason Variation: 1. d4 d5 2. Bf4

"Pirc Diagonal": diagonal covered by Black's queen in the Pirc Defense.

"Rubinstein Diagonal": diagonal along which White's queen moves in the Rubinstein Caro-Kann

"Scholar's Diagonal": diagonal of mate in Scholar's Mate: 1. e4 e5 2. Qh5 Nc6 3. Bc4 Nf6 4. Qxf7#

"Spanish Diagonal": diagonal of the pin in Ruy Lopez (Spanish Opening): 1. e4 e5 2. Nf3 Nc6 3. Bb5

"Vienna Diagonal": diagonal left open for White's queen in the Vienna Game (1. e4 e5 2. Nc3)

"Yugoslav Diagonal": diagonal along which White creates a battery in the Yugoslav Attack of the Sicilian

 
mosai

Let us refer to the 15 bottom/left-top/right diagonals as a "roads" A-O (capitals to distinguish from files), and the 15 bottom/right-top/left diagonals as "streets" I, II, ... to XV (to distinguish from ranks). Now each square can be referred to as a road/street combo. For example e4 is GVIII, or G the eighth. Similarly the a-file becomes the HI-OVIII file.

sauncho

RE:39 mosai

Yes, the natural alternative coordinate system. It is of course less economical in terms of how many symbols are required to represent the 64 squares. (30 versus 16).

Here, I made a diagram of your suggestion:

sauncho

[Some unbelievably trivial observations] Suggestion to you priggles: Skip this, what I'm about to say, will appear even more tedious and needless than the slow-witted brainchild that is naming diagonals

Okay, we all know from the rules of Bishop movement that the poor Bishop is confined to half the chess-board. From the Bishop's pov It is as if Queenies, Prawns, Horsies the Tsar and the Kaiser are allowed to move freely between two parallel universes (the Light-Squared Universe and the Dark-Squared Universe). As a consequence of this, if we use the diagonal coordinate system in chess, we get one for each "universe", meaning the sets of symbols will be disjoint. But I won't bore you with the details of which diagonal coordinates don't fit the chess board, let's just cut corners... Laughing

Now, returning to the pleasurable diversion of naming diagonals. Using mosai's convention, this is what I got so far. I will fill in the list as I go along.

H = Imperial Highway

L = Fool's Alley

G = Italian Street

VIII = Broadway(?) That would make the d-file 7th Av. and Harlem would fittingly lie on the 8th rank :Tongue Out I sometimes think of f8,g8,h8 (when the pawns on f7,g7,h7 are still there, as the Bat Cave. (hmm..must alert the Penguin that the Bat cave could be in Harlem River Park) hu hu hu...Zzzz...

Pardon my silliness.

Richard_Hunter

I have been thinking about this too. I think it will help in visualisation. My idea was to name the diagonals after my own mnemonics, perhaps after streets. For example, A3-F8 might be called 'Regents Street'. Then if you've got a piece on this diagonal and an opponent's bishop was to move onto the same diagonal, it would be easy to think: 'Ah, my opponent's bishop has just stepped onto Regents street. I have a knight there, I'd better protect it!'

I thought I could also give the white diagonals names from streets in a different city to help differentiate them.

Having read this thread though, I'm not so sure. The idea of naming them according to function seems smart to me. 'The Knights diagonal', for example; Although, that runs the risk of ambiguity.

Standardised names would probably be a good thing, but I think also that using names familiar to oneself is useful for memorisation.

GambheerPurush

I know this is an old thread and it has been 6 years since the last message, but I would like to name the a3-f8 diagonal as the Budapest Diagonal because in Budapest Gambit (Also known as Budapest Defense) Black's dark squared Bishop is developed along this diagonal which is an important part of the opening. Which is also stated on its Wikipedia page: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Budapest_Gambit

chesscoachkat

There's two patterns: odd [1, 3, 5, 7, 7, 5, 3, 1] and even [2, 4, 6, 8, 6, 4, 2]. 
The bishops are most active in the two center squares (8, 7 diagonals) or the 6, 7 diagonals