Which piece is the king?

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Sjtsjogoljev

Sjtsjogoljev

I own a set looking similar to the picture above. Don't mind the colors. But my question is: which of these pieces is the king and which one is the queen? 

Vardis

The King's on the left.  A search via google image can confirm that, which leads to https://www.regencychess.co.uk/ornate-chessmen-c-1_17.html

You can see all the pieces are ordered KQBNRP

Sjtsjogoljev

Thanks, Vardis. I agree that according to that website, you would have to conclude that the King is the piece on the most left side. However, I'm still not convinced for 100%.

In the book Chessmen, Art and History (2007) by Mathieu and Ine Kloprogge, it says on page 101:

The "Régence chess set"
The pieces (picture IV.26) are turned and carved of wood and sometimes Ivory. Characteristeric are the vase-like "bellies" of the king and the queen. Above the bellies two conical rings are stacked on the stem. The king wears a crown and is 7.5 cm tall. The queen has a bulbous finial.

So based on this source I would conclude the opposite: The first piece on the picture is the queen and the second piece is the king. This is also confusing because the Régence king looks somewhat like the queen in a Staunton chess set. 

So I am still looking for more proof.

 

Meurl

Ask which one identifies as a woman. Just hope both or neither say they do.

Scottrf

Doesn’t matter. Burn the monstrosity.

Maverick721
It’s usually the tallest one, so that is what I’m going to go with(second one from the left)
Bussho

The more chess pieces diverge from classic Staunton the more I hate them .  In the lowest circle of hell they try to play chess with similar sized onyx pieces that have inexplicable grooves and notches , perhaps you've seen these  ?

Vardis

When I search for The "Régence chess set", I get a different set than the one depicted.  In that set, it does look like you described from the book, with the King again placed on the end in all images I see.  The King's crown has wider... well I guess they aren't "points", I'm not sure what the terminology is. wink.png

 

For the specific set you're asking about, that seems to be "French Regency Period Chess Pieces Ebonised".  In all images I see of that with actual positions, the King is the one without the crown.  The description of that set is:

"The queen, knight and rook of the French Regency Period Chessmen all share distinctive features with the classic Staunton shape. However, the king, pawn and bishop all have the simple, hand-turned characteristics of the era they hail from. "

Other than tracking down who made it, I'm not sure you'll get better proof. wink.png

Holy-Kittehs

when in doubt, just put a "Q" and "K" sticker on them. lovely set btw thumbup.pngplayhand.pngchesspawn.png

Sjtsjogoljev
natarka schreef:

The more chess pieces diverge from classic Staunton the more I hate them .  In the lowest circle of hell they try to play chess with similar sized onyx pieces that have inexplicable grooves and notches , perhaps you've seen these  ?

I tend to agree with you on this, although hate is too strongly expressed for me. 

The thing is however, that these pieces were designed in the 18th century. So long before Staunton designed his pieces. Actually, the reason for the current discussion might be the same reason for Staunton to come up with some kind of standardization around 1850.

 

Sjtsjogoljev

Thanks to all for your suggestions.

Maverick721 gives an interesting fact: in most chess sets the king is the tallest. It is very common to only mention the king's height when describing the size of the whole set.

Vardis also gives a reasonable explation. But still he is quoting an English website, while this design is originally from French. 

Therefore, I am not convinced yet either way.

Sjtsjogoljev

@Vardis, here is an other website:

Reproduced Antique Series Regency Chess Pieces

This website also gives a table with the heights of all pieces. King is 4.3 inches while the queen is somewhat smaller with 4.0 inches.

Hence, the king has the crown and is the tallest.

But if this is true, the Regency Chess Company would not know what they are selling, despite their company name. 

Vardis
Eric-Cesar wrote:

But if this is true, the Regency Chess Company would not know what they are selling, despite their company name. 

Yeah, I'm starting to think that's the case, lol.

batgirl

That same site puts the crowned piece on the d1 square.

 

quadibloc

I think their intention may be to describe the set in a way that makes sense to players who are used to Staunton sets.  So the crowned piece has a style of crown that matches that of the Queen on a modern Staunton set. Those who are familiar with older non-Staunton patterns will realize that this piece is in fact the King on that style of set, and their similarly well-informed opponents can then play with the set in a more authentic manner.

number-0

id say the crown one is the queen and the bishop and pawn look the same lol

BigHickory

Put it in a cabinet on display.  Use a Staunton set when you play a game.  No problem.

forked_again

I could play with it either way.  Make a rule for your house and stick with it.  I'm guessing the tallest piece is the king, but that's a not very manly king 😎

batgirl

On the other hand, the House of Staunton displays the set with the ball-top piece on d1