Which side would you rather have and why?

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erikido23

amri97

i would play black even if i mean it is a draw.

erikido23
pfren wrote:

Black should be better, due to the poor position of the white king. Still, it's not easy to win. Maybe white can hold.

Black has a passed pawn? Really? Where?


 Oops, f pawn isn't supposed to be there

beardogjones

Good question!   I will say black due to the superior piece count white

will not be able to hold onto the queenside pawns. 

beardogjones

If f-pawn is not there, BLACK

VLaurenT

Even with white's f pawn, I think black is easier to handle : if the white queenside pawns are blockaded, it's game over.

erikido23
pfren wrote:

Without the white f-pawn, Black should have an easy win.


 I agree that black is better.  BUt, easy win?   I can obviously plug this into a comp..But, I was interested in what plan you implement in this type of position.  Have a sample line? 

My first thought for black was n-f4 and then blockading on the dark squares(while also clearing a piece from in front of my pawns).   Am I on the right track

erikido23
hicetnunc wrote:

Even with white's f pawn, I think black is easier to handle : if the white queenside pawns are blockaded, it's game over.


 That is pretty clear.  But, how to blockade them most effectively..

Kingpatzer

I can't find a good move for white, so I'll take black. But it's purely out of ignorance. The rook check on the d-file just makes black make the move he wants to make anyway.

waffllemaster

In the original position, with no black passers, I don't see how it's so easy for black.  In fact my initial impression was to like white because of the pawns, but I guess they can be blockaded.

However I don't see black winning the pawns and going on to win the game.  In this case what's the winning idea?  To gain material or to realize your queenside majority? The IM (and everyone else) says black, and I'm willing to listen why, because I don't see it.  I'd rather try white :p

waffllemaster

With the black passer, I can see how the minors will outperform the rooks, and black's idea is straightforward (his passer) so in that case I'd rather be black, but not as overwhelmingly as pfren saw it.

nameno1had

If you break down the rest of this game into three parts, like you would a game ordinarily, in terms of an opening, middle and end game, I personally think other than a few early attacks that white has, black is in good shape in the opening. White can make a few things interesting, but I think black's superior number of power pieces, most especially the knights will spell certain doom for white through the remainder of the opening, and most of the middle game. It will be a bit tricky as to whether black can strangle and subdue whites position and material enough to make it a short end game.

If it is a long one, the queenside pawns for white are most likely going to produce at least one promotion.This could be the turning of the tide. I am curious as to whether I see this correctly, so much so, I intend to plug this in and let the Chessmaster play itself. I won't post the results here as I feel it will ruin the thread. I like to hear analysis from good players. If I post the results, it will most likely diminish any practicle reason to share any insight. However, please feel free to ask for the solution if you are interested.

Chesserroo2
erikido23 wrote:

 

 


I would take White, since White has 4 passed pawns, in addition to a one point lead.

waffllemaster

erikido23, hicetnunc, and pfren all have skill near or (a lot) above mine, so I'm curious about your unanimous endorsement of black.  Lets just say in practical terms, is it easier for white to go wrong here than black?

I mean the diagrammed position with the 3 passers for white and none for black.  Sure in terms of piece play black is outperforming white, but is it really such a sure win?

I mean, one thing I wonder is if black has enough pawns to even try to win?  Pawnless endgames a piece down can be drawn for example.  And white's king is not out of play in terms of black trying to play for a win though his majority.

nameno1had
waffllemaster wrote:

erikido23, hicetnunc, and pfren all have skill near or (a lot) above mine, so I'm curious about your unanimous endorsement of black.  Lets just say in practical terms, is it easier for white to go wrong here than black?

I mean the diagrammed position with the 3 passers for white and none for black.  Sure in terms of piece play black is outperforming white, but is it really such a sure win?

I mean, one thing I wonder is if black has enough pawns to even try to win?  Pawnless endgames a piece down can be drawn for example.  And white's king is not out of play in terms of black trying to play for a win though his majority.


Considering I put this position into the Chessmaster to see what the result would be if it played itself from this position, I find your thoughts somewhat intriguing.

I found that my own analysis was a bit biased toward black,as those individuals you pointed out. So do you think white wins?

erikido23
nameno1had wrote:
waffllemaster wrote:

erikido23, hicetnunc, and pfren all have skill near or (a lot) above mine, so I'm curious about your unanimous endorsement of black.  Lets just say in practical terms, is it easier for white to go wrong here than black?

I mean the diagrammed position with the 3 passers for white and none for black.  Sure in terms of piece play black is outperforming white, but is it really such a sure win?

I mean, one thing I wonder is if black has enough pawns to even try to win?  Pawnless endgames a piece down can be drawn for example.  And white's king is not out of play in terms of black trying to play for a win though his majority.


Considering I put this position into the Chessmaster to see what the result would be if it played itself from this position, I find your thoughts somewhat intriguing.

I found that my own analysis was a bit biased toward black,as those individuals you pointed out. So do you think white wins?


 After a3 n-c4 seems very annoying and I would already prefer black after c3 n-c4 seems very annoying.  Basically all the pawn moves I want to play don't seem to work.  So the only moves I see for white are r-fb1(or c1) and b-d4. The rook moves seem slightly awkard.  B-d4 seems like the only way to play. 

 

1.b-d4, n-c4 2. b3, n-a3 3.r-c1 and white does seem to be making progress.  Maybe there is better than n-a3?  Maybe n-c4 is too ambitous.  It is difficult. I never said I thought it was an easy win.  Only that I felt theoretically black should be slightly better(I did say I would play either side though)

VLaurenT

On 1.Bd4, maybe 1...Nc6

With white, I would probably start with b3-c4, but I'm not confident Undecided

erikido23
hicetnunc wrote:

On 1.Bd4, maybe 1...Nc6

With white, I would probably start with b3-c4, but I'm not confident


 b3 just seems bad after b-a3.  the pawns will be blocaded it seems.

 

n-d5 seems very strong as well-attacking the unprotected bishop and (maybe threatening n-b4

waffllemaster

Heh, seems I gave you guys the tough job of finding moves in this uncommon type of position.  I was just wondering why in general you'd like one side.  I suppose you figured black's piece play is more straightforward than white who (and I agree) wants to advance his pawns but wants to avoid blockades / targets.

I don't like the a2-b3-c4 structure because it seems like an easy blockade and the difference between the a file rooks is appalling Tongue out

That said I really don't know how to advance the pawns, so I guess I'd be more comfortable playing black... not that I couldn't have good results as white but it would be scary :)

erikido23
pfren wrote:

Removing the f2 pawn, white has no chances at all, sorry for that.


 Well, thats really helpful...I believe you.  But, how bout helping us patzers out with a sample line.