Who of these do you think is the most naturally gifted i.e talented chess player of all time?

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VeiledFate

1. Bobby Fischer

2. Jose Raul Capablanca

3. Paul Morphy

4. Carlsen Magnus

5. Alireza Firoujza

6. Inarkiev "King's Gambit aka Inarkiev's Immortal King Sacrifice" Ernesto

Felis_Domesticus
COVID-195548 wrote:

1. Bobby Fischer

2. Jose Raul Capablanca

3. Paul Morphy

4. Carlsen Magnus

5. Alireza Firoujza

6. Inarkiev "King's Gambit aka Inarkiev's Immortal King Sacrifice" Ernesto

+1

quietheathen1st

capa and morphy. neither of them worked as hard as fischer ever did, and got strong regardless of that. fischer is high up on that list, but he is never going to be number 1 as far as potential goes. heck, tal and spassky could go above him tbh

NikolaiSpongnikov
I’d put Capa on the top cause he literally didn’t study ANY chess except for I believe an analysis Lasker did with him about the Siesta variation of the Ruy Lopez.
quietheathen1st
NikolaiSpongnikov wrote:
I’d put Capa on the top cause he literally didn’t study ANY chess except for I believe an analysis Lasker did with him about the Siesta variation of the Ruy Lopez.

he likely mustve studied a little bit, but unlike most champs, he actually didnt even play that much, so there is likelihood he may have played tourneys even while somewhat rusty from not playing in a few weeks or months

Srimurugan108

There is an azerbijan

player named

shahriyar mammadov whose game I admire and by far a powerful and compact

player 

icositetrachoron
COVID-195548 wrote:

1. Bobby Fischer

2. Jose Raul Capablanca

3. Paul Morphy

4. Carlsen Magnus

5. Alireza Firoujza

6. Inarkiev "King's Gambit aka Inarkiev's Immortal King Sacrifice" Ernesto

+1

goodbye27

Aditya Mittal 😅😅

https://www.chess.com/member/vinniethepooh

NikolaiSpongnikov
Lol PruneJunkie calm your tits. I actually do recall him saying that he studied endgames. Sorry, I forgot about that.
gingerninja2003

Samuel Reshevesky. 

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Stockfish

IpswichMatt
PruneJunkie wrote:

What on earth is a compact player???

 

It means he's a little guy

IpswichMatt
gingerninja2003 wrote:

Samuel Reshevesky. 

+1

thebully99

Morphy/ Sultan Khan - Neither really studied theory nor play the game for long; the former dominated his era, the latter won both of his games against Capablanca and beat a few other top grandmasters.

Capablanca - Never dedicated himself to the game like his peers; outmatched the Cuban champion shortly before he turned 13 and probably became the best speed player at the age of 18 until his death.  He was very difficult to beat and praised for his positional genius by everyone. 

Henry Pillsbury - Won the strongest tournament of the 19th century  at the age of 22, 7 years after he started learning how to play the game. Outmatched Lasker and Chigorin in the following tournament but got destroyed by Steinitz due to headaches suffered from syphilis.

Cecil de Vere - The first British chess champion. Not a well-known name, but apparently he was a prodigy considered by chess writers to be the only possible peer to Morphy in terms of natural genius since he played chess so well without knowing any theory.
Sam Reshevsky - Arguably chess's greatest prodigy. Gave simuls at age 6, and at age 10 he tied for 3rd place at the strong New York Masters tournament where he defeated  veteran grandmaster/former world champion contender David Janowski.

Da-Vere

Easy choice for me. Naturally gifted? Bobby Fischer of course.

quietheathen1st
thebully99 wrote:

Morphy/ Sultan Khan - Neither really studied theory nor play the game for long; the former dominated his era, the latter won both of his games against Capablanca and beat a few other top grandmasters.

Capablanca - Never dedicated himself to the game like his peers; outmatched the Cuban champion shortly before he turned 13 and probably became the best speed player at the age of 18 until his death.  He was very difficult to beat and praised for his positional genius by everyone. 

Henry Pillsbury - Won the strongest tournament of the 19th century  at the age of 22, 7 years after he started learning how to play the game. Outmatched Lasker and Chigorin in the following tournament but got destroyed by Steinitz due to headaches suffered from syphilis.

Cecil de Vere - The first British chess champion. Not a well-known name, but apparently he was a prodigy considered by chess writers to be the only possible peer to Morphy in terms of natural genius since he played chess so well without knowing any theory.
Sam Reshevsky - Arguably chess's greatest prodigy. Gave simuls at age 6, and at age 10 he tied for 3rd place at the strong New York Masters tournament where he defeated  veteran grandmaster/former world champion contender David Janowski.

u have likely given the best answer by far tbh. if u dont mind, id like to add a few things.

I sultan would likely rank higher than morphy as he played for less time, and against far stronger players. u would agree, no?

capablanca DID play for many years tho, against some of the best players in history. this clearly helped him deal with openings. plus, i have heard that he did study games from time to time, and this, of course, consisted of opening theory that he likely knew and mastered after some time (chess players have incredible memory, specially pros who have played the same game for more than 30 years, like capa has).

pillsbury is a very good choice. im quite the fan. sad end for him tbh. he couldve been the early capa tbh. wouldve been very cool to see how strong he wouldve gotten.

i actually do not know who this is. u mind telling me more about him? 

i actually disagree with reshevsky here. he was clearly was a strong player while he was young, but was far surpassed by the other prodigies at the time. tal, spassky, fischer, korchnoi, were all stronger than him by the time they were like, in their late 20s, while reshevesky already had some 40 years of experience? i mean, 19 y/o fischer was already stronger than botvnnik in 1962, who was in his prime at the time. then he had 10 years of improvement to get better and underprepared, rusty spassky could still hold his own. i would actually say that spassky is the biggest potential here tbh.

the new gen of super GMs all come to mind. 10 y/o caruana beating a GM is about as good as 13 y/o capa beating that cuban champ; 12 y/o karjakin being the youngest GM ever, younger than a lot of other super GMs (fischer included); wei yi reaching 2700 by the age of 18/17 (same for alireza); magus being magnus by the age of 14 (beat karpov and drew kasparov in the same tournament, iirc). 

i would also like to mention 22 y/o kaparov being a match for a 35ish y/o karpov who had beaten people like tal, spassky, korchnoi, petrosian, reshevsky, etc. then, just like fischer, u add in a decade+, and u have arguably the best player in history. then u get kramnik in his 20s being a match for kasparov in 2000.

Sylent_Knyght

How can we be talking about naturally gifted and not mention Philidor, the dude was literally two generations ahead of his peers. Also just because someone studies doesn't mean they are not naturally gifted. Some players are mainly intuitive and their play won't improve that dramatically from some hours of study. For example Morphy, if he studied with the resources at the time for years, when he got to board he will still make that same unsound sacrifice and win.

People always say stuff like if Morphy knew opening theory. if Morphy knew opening theory he wouldn't play it because it doesn't suit his style. I imagine how pissed off he would be if he had to play the King's Indian or Benoni on either side. If he got hours of coaching to adjust his style a bit, now there's a different story, but doesn't that apply to everyone. To be clear I am not throwing shade at Morphy, he contributed greatly to chess development.

All this aside, the most naturally gifted players in my view will be those that made new principles or debunked the old ones as they actually didn't have any source of reference and by their own study made chess progress.

Philidor: Pawns are valuable. A strong pawn center and formation will win the game eventually. 

Morphy: In an open position, blast open more lines at any cost

Steinitz: With a solid center, sacrifices are just free material and manoeuvring play around weaknesses triumphs

Tarrasch: Space is the key to winning games, Combining Morphy and Steinitz's principles to win games

Nimzoswitch: Alright everyone, no one needs pawns in the center, the pieces can control the center too (Hypermodern chess)

Alekhine: Build a really big center and grab as much space as you want, just so I can destroy it because you can't hold on.

And the list goes on

 

 

 

 

Ghostboy1968

Bobby fischer

quietheathen1st
Sylent_Knyght wrote:

How can we be talking about naturally gifted and not mention Philidor, the dude was literally two generations ahead of his peers. Also just because someone studies doesn't mean they are not naturally gifted. Some players are mainly intuitive and their play won't improve that dramatically from some hours of study. For example Morphy, if he studied with the resources at the time for years, when he got to board he will still make that same unsound sacrifice and win.

People always say stuff like if Morphy knew opening theory. if Morphy knew opening theory he wouldn't play it because it doesn't suit his style. I imagine how pissed off he would be if he had to play the King's Indian or Benoni on either side. If he got hours of coaching to adjust his style a bit, now there's a different story, but doesn't that apply to everyone. To be clear I am not throwing shade at Morphy, he contributed greatly to chess development.

All this aside, the most naturally gifted players in my view will be those that made new principles or debunked the old ones as they actually didn't have any source of reference and by their own study made chess progress.

Philidor: Pawns are valuable. A strong pawn center and formation will win the game eventually. 

Morphy: In an open position, blast open more lines at any cost

Steinitz: With a solid center, sacrifices are just free material and manoeuvring play around weaknesses triumphs

Tarrasch: Space is the key to winning games, Combining Morphy and Steinitz's principles to win games

Nimzoswitch: Alright everyone, no one needs pawns in the center, the pieces can control the center too (Hypermodern chess)

Alekhine: Build a really big center and grab as much space as you want, just so I can destroy it because you can't hold on.

And the list goes on

 

 

 

 

Very, very interesting and cool answer. Loved it tbh

StevieG65
Ivanchuk, obviously