TetsuoShima wrote:
krestez you must have been sleeping when he got the same score as magnus Carlsen in the candidates lol
I was making a reference to the Tal Memorial. But it might have been just a bad tournament...
Why is Alexander Grischuk so overlooked?
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Jul 11, 2013
0
#43
Now Grischuk is over Kramnik and Karjakin(which by the way is Ucranian)
| 1 | Carlsen |  |
2862.0 | 0.0 | 0 |  |
22 (30.11.1990) | ||
| 2 | Aronian |  |
2813.0 | 0.0 | 0 | |
30 (06.10.1982) | ||
| 3 | Caruana |  |
2796.0 | 0.0 | 0 | |
20 (30.07.1992) | ||
| 4 |  1 |
Grischuk |  |
2792.1 | +12.1 |  |
7 | |
29 (31.10.1983) |
| 5 |  1 |
Kramnik | |
2784.0 | 0.0 | 0 | |
38 (25.06.1975) | |
| 6 | Karjakin | |
2778.9 | +2.9 | |
7 | |
23 (12.01.1990) |
Natalia_Pogonina wrote:
Your question is easy to answer. The organizers are looking for a way to make their events more diverse and interesting for the international chess audience. As a result, only 1-2 top players (out of 13+ guys rated 2700+) from the country get invited. No one wants a Soviet flashback, when over 50% of the top players were representing one country.
Now imagine you are the organizer. You need someone high-rated and famous. If you are planning to invite one guy from Russia, your obvious choice is Vladimir Kramnik. If you need two and/or like chess prodigies, you can also invite Sergey Karjakin. Grischuk, Moro, Svidler and a few other brilliant players come next. And if you are "only" the European Chess Champion (like Jakovenko, 2713) or the Russian Chess Champion (Andreikin, 2727), you can hardly expect more than one elite invitation per year.
I like this explanation. Kramnik is... well he's Kramnik! And Karjakin is associated with young/talent/prodigy so Grischuk gets overlooked. Hmm.
SupremeOverlord wrote:
Because he's a terrible chess player.
He could spot you a queen and a rook.
SupremeOverlord wrote:
I can beat him given a pawn and first move advantage.
I wonder why your only friend is telling you to stop trolling.
Maybe to checkers.
Jul 11, 2013
0
#51
invitations have most to do with ELO and location and less to do with chess style, although organizers have begun to take more notice of style and fan popularity of the players.
Jul 11, 2013
0
#52
pdela wrote:
Now Grischuk is over Kramnik and Karjakin(which by the way is Ucranian)...
Pdela, Karjakin plays for Russia and the Russian Chess Federation. Whether you consider him Ukrainian or not has no bearing on WGM Pogonina's point.
It's interesting that she frames her point in terms of the old Soviet Union though. If it really were a matter of limiting former Soviet power rather than having too many players from a single nation, we would not see so many events with Aronian, Kramnik, Ivanchuk, Radjabov, and others from the former Soviet Union all in one tournament.
WGM Pogonina's point about sponsors wishing to limit players from any one nation does ring true though. At the recent Tal Memorial, 5 of the 10 players were from the former Soviet Union. Morozevich, Andreikin and Kramnik were from Russia.
Grischuk does not play as many tournaments as some of his +2700 comrades. Perhaps the decision to play fewer tournaments is at least partially his. I am certain that WGM Pogonina is correct that sponsors do not want to flood tournaments with Russian players, but they do not seem to have a specific quota of Russians in mind.
Jul 12, 2013
0
#53
SmyslovFan wrote:
pdela wrote:
Now Grischuk is over Kramnik and Karjakin(which by the way is Ucranian)...
Pdela, Karjakin plays for Russia and the Russian Chess Federation. Whether you consider him Ukrainian or not has no bearing on WGM Pogonina's point.
did not mention Pogogina or anyone... just point out the facility some people at sport has to compete for one nation or another upon convenience... like Shírov: Latvia, then Spain, then Latvia again...
Jul 12, 2013
0
#54
I think once you have played for a national team, you should keep attached to that one
Scottrf wrote:
SupremeOverlord wrote:
I can beat him given a pawn and first move advantage.
I wonder why your only friend is telling you to stop trolling.
lol
pdela wrote:
I think once you have played for a national team, you should keep attached to that one
I agree, that makes a mockery out of chess. No wonder no1 wants to watch chess anymore, why the hell would watch any league if people who arent even from that place playing in there.
Its like Soccer, i dont understany why would you even watch it if its not really people from that place and not your team anyway??? i dont even know why people would get attached to a team that is only made of some imported people, were is the relationship. when you see portugal soccer you see brasilians, in spain you probably see argentinian guys. in holland you probably see the nations of africa playing.
Jul 12, 2013
0
#57
SmyslovFan wrote:
pdela wrote:
Now Grischuk is over Kramnik and Karjakin(which by the way is Ucranian)...
Pdela, Karjakin plays for Russia and the Russian Chess Federation. Whether you consider him Ukrainian or not has no bearing on WGM Pogonina's point.
It's interesting that she frames her point in terms of the old Soviet Union though. If it really were a matter of limiting former Soviet power rather than having too many players from a single nation, we would not see so many events with Aronian, Kramnik, Ivanchuk, Radjabov, and others from the former Soviet Union all in one tournament.
WGM Pogonina's point about sponsors wishing to limit players from any one nation does ring true though. At the recent Tal Memorial, 5 of the 10 players were from the former Soviet Union. Morozevich, Andreikin and Kramnik were from Russia.
Grischuk does not play as many tournaments as some of his +2700 comrades. Perhaps the decision to play fewer tournaments is at least partially his. I am certain that WGM Pogonina is correct that sponsors do not want to flood tournaments with Russian players, but they do not seem to have a specific quota of Russians in mind.
You are arguing with points I've never made in the first hand. I never said there's an anti-Russian plot. It's just that Russians suffer most from the policy of restricting the # of players from one country. Why? We have many top GMs. There are 14+ Russian players rated 2700+. Ukraine has 5. Azerbaijan, France and China have 3. If you need non-Soviet examples, then it's either Nakamura or Kamsky (for USA), Wang Hao or Wang Yue (for China), Vachier-Lagrave vs. Bacrot vs. Fressinet (France), etc.
to me it sounds a bit of an anti-russian plot, why do players get punished just because they are from russia. I mean already back in the 50s or 60s i cant remember when, GMs werent allowed to play in candidates because they are russiam. i mean isnt against a few human right articles to be discriminated because of the country of your origin?
Ofc you know more about chess and the rules and how they are implemented. But as someone who doesnt know so much about chess, that sounds like discrimination.
Jul 12, 2013
0
#59
Natalia_Pogonina wrote:
Your question is easy to answer. The organizers are looking for a way to make their events more diverse and interesting for the international chess audience. As a result, only 1-2 top players (out of 13+ guys rated 2700+) from the country get invited. No one wants a Soviet flashback, when over 50% of the top players were representing one country.
Now imagine you are the organizer. You need someone high-rated and famous. If you are planning to invite one guy from Russia, your obvious choice is Vladimir Kramnik. If you need two and/or like chess prodigies, you can also invite Sergey Karjakin. Grischuk, Moro, Svidler and a few other brilliant players come next. And if you are "only" the European Chess Champion (like Jakovenko, 2713) or the Russian Chess Champion (Andreikin, 2727), you can hardly expect more than one elite invitation per year.
but players with that rating always struggle to get invited for elite events, I mean they always invite the same players from the top 5-10, and some local players, and the others (around 2720 ELO) struggle a lot to get invited to elite tournaments
krestez you must have been sleeping when he got the same score as magnus Carlsen in the candidates lol