Why is Alexander Grischuk so overlooked?

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Krestez

For those who were saying that he hasn't won any tournament recently, I think he's about to win the Beijing Grand Prix. He's the leader right now, alongside Mamedyarov

pdela
Estragon wrote:

Winning a big tournament would go a long way towards enhancing Grischuk's reputation - he hasn't quite done that yet.

There are about two dozen players vying for the Top Ten these days, and new youngsters moving up all the time to contend.  To get attention, even a Super-GM like Grischuk needs to win some high-profile classical events. 

another one, he won Linares

pdela

Linares 2009, final results, Grischuk winner in tie-breaks.

1. Grischuk, Alexander
8
RUS
2733
2. Ivanchuk, Vassily
8
UKR
2779
3. Carlsen, Magnus
7.5
NOR
2776
4. Anand, Viswanathan
7
IND
2791
5. Radjabov, Teimour
6.5
AZE
2761
6. Wang Yue
6.5
CHN
2739
7. Aronian, Levon
6.5
ARM
2750
8. Dominguez Perez, Leinier
6
CUB
2717
pdela

plus Russian Chess Championship, finalist in the Candidates 2011, finalist in the World Cup

pdela
Estragon wrote:

Wow, he won a big event FOUR YEARS AGO.

 

At that time, he had a lot of promise.  He's stayed near the top, but so have many others.  The question is "why is he overlooked?" and the answer is he hasn't done much to attract attention lately.

well, there was a period he didn't play too much, but you said he had never won a big event which is false (try to use the wikipedia, at least, if you don't know). And was protagonist in the Candidates 2011 and then in the World Cup and currently he is 4th in the World in live ratings and 1er Russian player so "he hasn't done much to attract attention lately" is also false (now is leading Beijing Grand Prix). So basically everything you've said is false, despite of it you have a 2480 rating, Wow, congrats

kco

4 years ago is a long time pdela,  The question is "why is he overlooked?" and the answer is he hasn't done much to attract attention lately.-Estragon.

pdela

but he hasn't done much to attract attention lately is not true

fabelhaft
schlechter55 wrote:

His chess is effective and strong, but perhaps less spectacular than of Carlsen, Kramnik, Nakamura, Gelfand, Morosevich etc.

Ok for the others, but is Gelfand's chess really more spectacular than Grischuk's? Of course Grischuk is a great player that deserves a lot of attention, but this discussion is mainly caused by him doing well in his last games. Just a few months ago he was outside the top ten, and maybe for example Mamedyarov has been no less overlooked.

Grischuk for example played Linares three times, Mamedyarov none. Grischuk has four starts in Wijk, Mamedyarov one, etc. Still Mamedyarov has been ranked 4th in the world, i.e. higher than Grischuk ever reached on an official rating list. But of course both Grischuk and Mamedyarov would be less overlooked if they didn't come from countries where there have been other top rated players to invite. If one of them were British or Dutch he would have played lots of Londons and Wijks and other western events. 

fabelhaft

I don't think playing style is too important when it comes to invitations. Leko played Linares 9 times (and finished last in his last starts), Wijk 11 times, and Dortmund every time the last almost 20 years as well as Tal Memorial and the other top tournaments. He has usually not been considered the most exciting top player, and peaked just outside the top three (like Mamedyarov and Grischuk this far) but has still played ten top tournaments for every start of "exciting" players like Morozevich or Mamedyarov.

Shakaali
schlechter55 wrote:

There are two reasons why Grishuk is not mentioned so often:

1. He is a really nice guy.

2. His chess is effective and strong, but perhaps less spectacular than of Carlsen, Kramnik, Nakamura, Gelfand, Morosevich etc.

Effective and strong but not so spectacular would be much more suitable characterization for Carlsen.

SmyslovFan
Shakaali wrote:
schlechter55 wrote:

There are two reasons why Grishuk is not mentioned so often:

1. He is a really nice guy.

2. His chess is effective and strong, but perhaps less spectacular than of Carlsen, Kramnik, Nakamura, Gelfand, Morosevich etc.

Effective and strong but not so spectacular would be much more suitable characterization for Carlsen.

I'd say Carlsen is pretty spectacular. He tends to destroy Nakamura in the openings, and destroy most of the rest of his opponents in unusual ways in the late middlegame or endgame. Winning as consistently as he has done is spectacular. Every loss is newsworthy, and he fights furiously for every half point. 

His voracious appetite to win coupled with his incredible skill is so spectacular he has become the most recognisable chess player since Kasparov.

Shakaali
SmyslovFan wrote:
Shakaali wrote:
schlechter55 wrote:

There are two reasons why Grishuk is not mentioned so often:

1. He is a really nice guy.

2. His chess is effective and strong, but perhaps less spectacular than of Carlsen, Kramnik, Nakamura, Gelfand, Morosevich etc.

Effective and strong but not so spectacular would be much more suitable characterization for Carlsen.

I'd say Carlsen is pretty spectacular. He tends to destroy Nakamura in the openings, and destroy most of the rest of his opponents in unusual ways in the late middlegame or endgame. Winning as consistently as he has done is spectacular. Every loss is newsworthy, and he fights furiously for every half point. 

His voracious appetite to win coupled with his incredible skill is so spectacular he has become the most recognisable chess player since Kasparov.

Winning consistently is more of a question of stength than style. His results are spectacular no doubt. Whether you consider his style spectacular or not is another matter. It depends on your taste of course but my impression is that most amateurs prefer more flashy style  ala Tal, Shirov, Kasparov or even Grischuk. I doubt that if instead of a prodigious 2850+ youngster from Norway we'd have a 35 year old russian GM playing with style similar to Carlsen but weaker results, say at 2700+ level (that's weak, rightWink), he wouldn't be considered that spectacular by majority of chess enthusiasts.

schlechter55

There is also no doubt that a 35-year old Russian with rating 2860 would be much less worshipped than Carlsen, for the reason :

' Oh no, not again a Russian !'

Needless to add that Carlsen is a nice guy, and deservedly number 1 right now.

chesscrave1

        My Google results for the following GMs:

  • Alexander Grischuck: About 202,000 results (0.24 seconds) 
  • Magnus Carlsen: About 3,540,000 results (0.18 seconds) 
  • Vishwanathan Anand: About 1,120,000 results (0.17 seconds) 
  • Garry Kasparov: About 408,000 results (0.18 seconds) 
  • Bobby fischer: About 5,890,000 results (0.32 seconds) 
 
I used google.com to conduct my search.
SmyslovFan
Estragon wrote:

Winning a big tournament would go a long way towards enhancing Grischuk's reputation - he hasn't quite done that yet.

...

[and today]

You are completely wrong, of course.

I said he won a big event four years ago, which was his last Super-GM tournament victory.  Every word I said is true and nothing you replied with alters that at all.

 

Estragon, you have renewed a fight that was waged 6 months ago. This was your statement 6 months ago compared to your statement today. Pdela pointed out that your original statement was false and only afterwards did you accept that he won a tournament four years ago.

Thank you though, for not editing your remarks after the fact. Far too many people here tend to do that when they are proven wrong and then pretend they never said it.

Crazychessplaya

How do you plead, Estragon?

Validior

arent there a ton of strong tourneys IN Russia?

pdela

what a great player...

can't imagine his results if he had more that 1 minute for his last 10 moves before the time control  Foot in Mouth

SmyslovFan

You may not have noticed, but Kramnik had a nice edge against Grischuk, and just overpressed. This wasn't the Netherlands-Spain game which may have truly heralded a changing of the guard. It was just a case of Kramnik trying too hard to win when he wasn't in form.

Kudos to Grischuk, who is a really dangerous opponent. His third place finish is one of his better results. But we should focus our attention on Karjakin, who repeated his victory in Norway ahead of Carlsen from last year! That's the main story of the Norway tournament.

Debistro

I think Grischuk can potentially exceed 2800 rating. He is said to be very good in blitz as well. Just a couple of wins will take him to the 2800 club.