Why is the queen so strong and the king so slow?

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ElKitch

In my spare time I love to design boardgames. One game that I'm working on is a wargame (2-4 players), it's going to be a bit like Settlers of Catan + Risk. The goal of the game is to kill another player's king.

Just like in Chess, this king is slower then other units(pieces). However, for tactical purposes it would also be nice if the king could be taken to the front (units get bonusses when they are around the king). This is to risky though, if you got some bad luck and your attack fails then the opponent could quickly kill your slow king and ends the game. This would not feel like an earned victory, and would make people feel disappointed about the abrupt ending.

So what I wanted to do is add a 'Queen'. A piece that is better than normal pieces, giving a bonus to surrounding pieces, and can be killed without losing the game right away.

Sofar no major problem, but somehow this does not feel right in the theme of the game (dark ages, pre gunpowder era). I do not want to be sexist, but when do you see a woman leading an army? (except for Joanne of Arc) I understand the king being old an slow, but I dont really picture the powerwoman leading the army.

 

So maybe I should you turn the Queen into a Prince? Or a Warlord? Nah, I like the idea of a woman leading the army. This would also be a bit unique in the gamingworld as it is so male oriented. Thus the problem is: how do I make the Queen a convincing leader of the army within a Dark ages theme?

Why is the queen in chess the strongest piece? I understand why the king is not: he is old and feeble. 

So how can I make the Queen fit in my theme? The theme is dark ages. The game will not be as friendly as Settlers of Catan but it's not very brutal hardcore slaying either. So I do think there is room for humour/creative storytelling to make it acceptable she leads the troops.

AndyClifton

I think you've got a little retracting to do, my man...

waffllemaster
ElKitch wrote:

In my spare time I love to design boardgames. One game that I'm working on is a wargame (2-4 players), it's going to be a bit like Settlers of Catan + Risk. The goal of the game is to kill another player's king.

Just like in Chess, this king is slower then other units(pieces). However, for tactical purposes it would also be nice if the king could be taken to the front (units get bonusses when they are around the king). This is too risky though, if you got some bad luck and your attack fails then the opponent could quickly kill your slow king and ends the game. This would not feel like an earned victory, and would make people feel disappointed about the abrupt ending.

So what I wanted to do is add a 'Queen'. A piece that is better than normal pieces, giving a bonus to surrounding pieces, and can be killed without losing the game right away.

Sofar no major problem, but somehow this does not feel right in the theme of the game (dark ages, pre gunpowder era). I do not want to be sexist, but when do you see a woman leading an army? (except for Joanne of Arc) I understand the king being old an slow, but I dont really picture the powerwoman leading the army.

 

So maybe I should you turn the Queen into a Prince? Or a Warlord? Nah, I like the idea of a woman leading the army. This would also be a bit unique in the gamingworld as it is so male oriented. Thus the problem is: how do I make the Queen a convincing leader of the army within a Dark ages theme?

Why is the queen in chess the strongest piece? I understand why the king is not: he is old and feeble. 

So how can I make the Queen fit in my theme? The theme is dark ages. The game will not be as friendly as Settlers of Catan but it's not very brutal hardcore slaying either. So I do think there is room for humour/creative storytelling to make it acceptable she leads the troops.

Taking advantage of poor decisions always feels like an earned victory.  This is not a game design flaw.

This seems less dynamic... it's just another attacking piece.  When the king gives bonus and heads an attack, it's a calculated risk, and could make for some interesting strategies. 

There should be some dynamic associated with the queen advance, otherwise it's just the obvious thing all players do all the time as she gives a bonus with no risk.  Make the bonus variable depending on some important factor or area, or make the loss of the queen come with some other penalty (loss of turn, money, temp decrease of stats etc).

This penalty would also fit into the storyline you use to make the queen a leader.  Although when you accept that the game is not hardcore, then it seems you need no explanation in the first place.

For a light touch and say she loves her country, and the people of the country love her.  So the soldiers moral boost when she's near ups their stats.

To weave it more intricately with the backstory/setting of the game, you could involve a blessing/curse/prophecy associated with her.

 

ponz111

It is because men like to marry women who are younger than themselves--and the men age and get sick etc. while their younger wifes look on...

Men have shorter life span...

ElKitch
waffllemaster wrote:
 

Taking advantage of poor decisions always feels like an earned victory.  This is not a game design flaw.

This seems less dynamic... it's just another attacking piece.  When the king gives bonus and heads an attack, it's a calculated risk, and could make for some interesting strategies. 

There should be some dynamic associated with the queen advance, otherwise it's just the obvious thing all players do all the time as she gives a bonus with no risk.  Make the bonus variable depending on some important factor or area, or make the loss of the queen come with some other penalty (loss of turn, money, temp decrease of stats etc).

This penalty would also fit into the storyline you use to make the queen a leader.  Although when you accept that the game is not hardcore, then it seems you need no explanation in the first place.

For a light touch and say she loves her country, and the people of the country love her.  So the soldiers moral boost when she's near ups their stats.

To weave it more intricately with the backstory/setting of the game, you could involve a blessing/curse/prophecy associated with her.

 

Thanks for your elaborate comment! 

By making "kill the King to win" the objective I hope situations will arise where player A and B will help player C (for instance by attacking D), because C's King is heavily attacked by D.

The game will feel unforfilling when player D decides to use his king to support an attack against C. D is not so experienced and sends his slow King out with few supporting units. He/she has some bad rolls, and all of a sudden there's a King out in the open that C can easily kill. Imagine what player A and B feel like :)

By making the Queen a piece that cannot be replaced players will have to be carefull using her. She would give a bonus to adjacent area's only, so the placement has to be good and close to the front.

Her bonus can indeed be combined with other bonusses, some terrainbonusses, optimal use of certain types of units and the playing of special cards. If you manage to combine those bonusses optimally you'll be fighting a whole lot stronger.

 

I hoped that there was a common story in Chess why the Queen is so important, that could be translated to this game. Getting a story why 1 queen leads an army is easy, but why are all armies led by a queen? :D

timbeau
ponz111 wrote:

It is because men like to marry women who are younger than themselves--and the men age and get sick etc. while their younger wifes look on...

Men have shorter life span...

Oh...

waffllemaster

Oh, I see, so that she's not a replacable piece does make losing her dangerous, ok.

You want an explination why all armies are led by a queen?  Personally I think you're over thinking it Smile

You wouldn't have to state in the game that she leads the army, only that the moral boost gives bonus to stats (or something like that).  Sure players will likely choose to use her in important battles, but the game doesn't force them to ;)

timbeau

Its a feature of Chess. It just is. 

ElKitch
waffllemaster wrote:

Oh, I see, so that she's not a replacable piece does make losing her dangerous, ok.

You want an explination why all armies are led by a queen?  Personally I think you're over thinking it

You wouldn't have to state in the game that she leads the army, only that the moral boost gives bonus to stats (or something like that).  Sure players will likely choose to use her in important battles, but the game doesn't force them to ;)

Well, overthinking.. I'm looking for a single line that could be in the storytelling: "[...], and thus she leads the forces." The "looking up to her, giving a morale boost"-part already sounds good.

Perhaps I'll let the player choose who leads the army. A female player could leave her queen at home, the male player his king, or vice versa. The miniature that resembles your flag (the vulnerable victory condition miniature) could get a tiny hat :D

This is from yahoo answers:

Best Answer - Chosen by Asker

The "queen" figure was originally a general or champion. Chess was used to train ancient princes to lead armies in wars. Ancient wars were normally fought over who would rule, so the young men had to learn to resist the impulse to charge out themselves and risk getting killed. You had to live to rule after victory. Thus, the king's movement is limited and if you lose him, you lose the game. Instead, the game teaches the player to use all the other assets he has in his army.

Here's another long read about the matter, though I don't find a clear answer in it:

http://www.scribd.com/doc/21401815/Why-the-Chess-Queen-is-More-Powerful-Than-the-King

jontsef

Because the inventor didn't attend enough sessions with his psychiatrist.

 

P.S. you can call the piece Zenobia.

ElKitch

Obi Wan Zenobi

timbeau

Why is the sky blue? Now that is a question with an answer.

ElKitch

Thanks for the comment, Estragon. The game Im working on is very unchesslike. In fact it has 0 to do with chess :) It is a Settlers of Catan/Civilization/Axis and Allies board game.

What I somewhat incoporated into it is the King and Queen. The King being the victorycondition, and the Queen being an important attacking piece. Since the boardgame has a wholelot more theme than chess, I thought it would be nice to make that aspect part of the story and I hoped there was a clear story to why the Q and K have these roles in chess. But appearantly there isnt.

 

To give you an idea what it's like: Ive been making tiles for the 2nd prototype today (im not very good at photoshop, and it doesnt have to be very flashy -this will do for now). The board consists of 25 of these 3x3 tiles. Each terrain type has its own rules (ie cant pas mountain, wood gives cover, hill adds range for bowmen, etc) Build cities and chop wood from forest, ore from mines, clay from hills and food from water/grasslands.

So build cities and army and eventually kill a king. Cool feature are the barbarians that spawn randomly. They move randomly, but have some scriptlike rules "if distance to city

 

You never asked for this information, but I got more enthousiastic when I made these tiles today :)

AndyClifton
timbeau wrote:

Why is the sky blue? Now that is a question with an answer.

Not only that, it's a question with a Chess.com thread (actually, turns out there are several answers).

Conquistador
timbeau wrote:

Why is the sky blue? Now that is a question with an answer.

Your question is incorrect to begin with because it assumes that the sky is blue in the first place.  Everybody and their mother knows that the sky is not blue.

AndyClifton

See?  Listen to old Helmet Head (he knows a trick or two)...

Conquistador

If you see the air you are breathing is blue, then you need to ease up on the kool-aid (that stuff stains really bad too). 

ElKitch
ElKitch wrote:

[...]Cool feature are the barbarians that spawn randomly. They move randomly, but have some scriptlike rules "if distance to city

 

You never asked for this information, but I got more enthousiastic when I made these tiles today :)

Hmm, it appears that part of my comment has fallen away! So I cant do anything other than tell a bit more about those barbarians :)

Each turn players have an increased chance to roll "barbarians". If they do so they got two choices: move existing barbarians or place new barbarians. The new barbarians are randomly placed by rolling 2D8 for the X and Y location (board = 15x15 squares).

From there the barbarians move in their own "barbarianturn". They do so by rolling a die 8 (tells the direction) + 2D6. One D6 tells the distance (0,1,2 or 3 squares), other D6 tells whether they gain or lose 1 barbarian. In rare cases (2D6= 1 & 1) they build a fortress, which pumps out barbarians every turn.

Also players can conquer small barbariantowns, by doing so they raise taxes which can be used to buy special cards. However, if a barbarian army is within 2 squares distance they will move towards that town to liberate it. Also if they are being shot at by an archer they will move towards them.

This might sound complicated, but if you see it happening on the board its easy.

ElKitch

AndyClifton

Wow, looks like you need to clean your bathroom tile more often.