Why is Topalov look down upon so much?

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thejackbauer

I just recently started looking at chess somewhat seriously so I'm not fully updated on the chess world, in fact Anand-Topalov is the first thing I really even heard about, yet. So as for the two, I know very little about their history in the chess world. But it seems like Topalov is getting a lot of negative attention. I saw something about the 'Toiletgate' incident and through all his negative reception I couldn't help but feel negative towards Topalov. 

But the more I read into it and see other people's comments, I feel like people seem to be exaggerating a lot. 

1) I don't know everything about the 'Toiletgate' incident but doesn't Topalov have the right to be suspicious of Kramnik's behavior by going to the toilet a lot? Maybe I don't know the exact details but how did this exactly play out? Did he not drop his accusations or did he accuse him during the game? 

2) Anand could not make it to Sophia in time and asked for a 3 day delay. Some people seem to accuse Topalov and his team for using cheap tactics for an easy win by having Anand tired while playing. But it doesn't even seem like Topalov had a say in this.

3) The no talking policy. For this it is hard to justify Topalov. But maybe Topalov just did not want to be disturbed and wanted to focus on chess completely. He might find it annoying, unnecessary, or inefficient for the players to personally ask for draws to one another. But maybe he just wanted to show to himself and maybe the world that he was taking things seriously. 

4) As soon as people heard that there was no handshake at the end of game 3 people started accusing Topalov for not providing it. They both forgot and either way when there was no handshake it means that both players didn't give one, not just Topalov.

Anyways, I really like Topalov's style of play but I don't want to support someone who can potentially be a complete asshole. Was there any other incidents with Topalov that make people look at him that way? Was there something else in the 'Toiletgate' incident? 

orangehonda

Topalov's chess is amazing -- his personality is crap.  Other than toilet gate other top players don't seem to like him either but of course that's 3rd hand info.  Comments I do know he's made involve saying things like "Kramnik's chess is blow my level, I'm in another class" (then he loses a closely fought match).  I believe he said something similar about Anand -- that Anand's chess is also inferior to his own blah blah blah.  So like I said he's basically just a jerk.

Of course you already mentioned the Sofia rules thing.  When FIDE laid out the rules to be used Topa's response is "well I'm going by my rules anyway."  So we have de facto Sofia rules anyway (the un-practical results of which can be seen from game 3).

People jumped on the handshake issue of game 3 because currently Kramnik and Topa both refuse to shake hands out of hate for each other.  If Vishy and Topa started a similar thing it would be a big deal, so because of the history people were interested.

alanb123

I have been out of the 'chess scene' for a long time and like yourself see a lot of negativity towards Topalov though it seems (looking in chat rooms etc) that his manager is responsible for most of the bad press he receives.

orangehonda
Fiveofswords wrote:

heres an article that touches on the subject of topolov's possible cheating which really started the bad taste many had for topolov and danialov

http://www.dnaindia.com/sport/report_short-take-veselin-topalov-could-have-been-cheating_1077079

Of course nothing is proven, But since people got suspicious topolov's performance is nothing close to it was in those tournaments...and what really seems important is that nobody really would say that topolov would never do that sort of thing, its not his character...


Wow I didn't know Short had come out with this (hmm, 3 years old news heh).  Wasn't Short Topalov's 2nd in some match?  Now that I'm "saying that out load" it sounds crazy -- I wonder where I heard that?

Crazychessplaya

Nigel Short's judgement is something I would not trust, given his past behavior. Here are two examples taken out of a wiki article on him:

"Following the death of Tony Miles in 2001, Short wrote an obituary in the in the Sunday Telegraph which he claimed that during the 27th Chess Olympiad  in Dubai he had slept with Miles' then-girlfriend."

"Also in 2001, Short was in the news as the story broke that he had been secretly playing the reclusive former chess champion Bobby Fisher online in speed chess matches. Short later retracted the claim after Fischer himself had denied it."

It is difficult to sympathize with a person who would smear his dead rival in an obituary, of all things.

smileative

I met Tony Miles several times and he was a thorough gentleman, with a very dry sense of humour - I've never met Short and if what you say is actually true I'm in no hurry to rectify that situation Smile

dunce

So you're saying that a laptop from 3 years ago could outthink a top-level GM during a trip to the bathroom? Must've been some serious horsepower under the hood, if true.

Not defending Topalov, just saying . . .

Anyway, in answer to the theme question: Because the guy's a jerk with no sense of sportsmanship.

bjazz
dunce wrote:

So you're saying that a laptop from 3 years ago could outthink a top-level GM during a trip to the bathroom? Must've been some serious horsepower under the hood, if true.

Not defending Topalov, just saying . . .

Anyway, in answer to the theme question: Because the guy's a jerk with no sense of sportsmanship.


Yes. Already three years ago. And you should keep in mind that the top players, should they be inclined to cheat, wouldn't need to know the 'correct move', but rather a single nod or a wink from an accomplice at a time where there's a tactical opportunity to be looked for, would be enough to produce a signifigant advantage.

tigergutt

when  you accuse someone for cheating in public with no evidence you end up as a guy people dont like. topalov is a good player but this is how he will be remembered. this is how he differed from the rest

TheOldReb

Didnt both sides make accusations in toiletgate ? I know much was made about Kramniks frequent bathroom trips and then moving instantly when returning to the board. However, there are lots of questions: how many trips did he make and was this happening in more than one game? If I had an opponent that was going to the toilet too frequently , I would probably be suspicious too. This would especially be true if he was going with his clock running and then playing instantly on his return to the board..... I mean come on..... how can this NOT be suspicious ?  

smileative

I'm with you Reb; my mate (deceased unfortunately) was an IM an' he knew Kramnik an' his father - hated them passionately an' always reckoned Kramnik to be a cheat - this from many years before toiletgate Undecided

tigergutt

suspicious yes. you should be more than that before you go out in public with your opinions accusing your opponent of cheating. and people on kramnik and topalovs level are good enough to leave the board without losing control over the game:) they remember the position

TheOldReb

I wouldnt accuse my opponent of cheating if he was going too frequently but I might just go with him and see what he's doing...... is there any rules against that ?  Wink

TheOldReb

Has anyone seen a number used concerning the frequent toilet breaks ?  I mean, did he go 2 or 3 times,  20 times , more ?  Was this happening in only one game, or several, or all ? 

orangehonda
Reb wrote:

Didnt both sides make accusations in toiletgate ? I know much was made about Kramniks frequent bathroom trips and then moving instantly when returning to the board. However, there are lots of questions: how many trips did he make and was this happening in more than one game? If I had an opponent that was going to the toilet too frequently , I would probably be suspicious too. This would especially be true if he was going with his clock running and then playing instantly on his return to the board..... I mean come on..... how can this NOT be suspicious ?  


Well GMs can think while away, so it's not completely suspicious, but it is a little bit.  But then we see Topalov greatly exaggerating the number of trips -- also in the games at times Kramnik came back and blundered and in at least one game Topa missed a few opportunities.  So if Kramnik was cheating just analysing the games will show he was a piss poor cheater.

So they open up the ceiling and find a cable... no not a computer, not even a computer cable, just a cable.  Also they switched bathrooms each day so if there were an apparatus Topa got use of it half the days.

Anyway if I were so inclined, and if I were Anand, as a psychological game after deciding my move I'd just go to the bathroom then come back and play it, just to screw with Topa's head.  Of course you might get a lot of bad press for yourself and chess, but he left himself wide open lol.

kco

...just make sure he wash his hands when he is finish.

orangehonda
Reb wrote:

Has anyone seen a number used concerning the frequent toilet breaks ?  I mean, did he go 2 or 3 times,  20 times , more ?  Was this happening in only one game, or several, or all ? 


If I remember Topa said something like 50 times in his written complaint -- FIDE reviewed the tapes and it was less than half, but still in the 20s if I remember.

I think the best evidence against it though are the games themselves.  Like I said at one critical position Kramnik left after a number of moves -- but then played an inaccuracy and after that (a move or two later) at least one bad blunder (that Topa missed).

TheOldReb

Well,if he is cheating and not actually using the toilet does he still need to wash his hands? Wink

kco

he should wash his hand so it wouldn't looked so suspicious then !

ninevah

A disturbing thing about the Elista incident is that FIDE actually didn't checked the accusations until the match was over. From what I have read they did not allowed proper inspection and told the complaining side to just shut up. Even if there was no cheating, one good thing out of this was that the next matches became more transparent.

Of course, after this incident few people tried to hit back with weird accusations of Topalov cheating showing footage of Danailov scratching his head 100 feet away from the scene. I don't know how good those two were in telepathy (especially since at that video Topalov didn't even looked in his direction) but I trully doubt anything like that is possible.

As for Short and Cheparinov, after Short's derogatory comments against the Bulgarian team (!?) I wouldn't shake his hand either. He has a particularily bad case of accute oral diarrhea as Tony Miles' obituary and some other incidents proved.

I believe it's all a question of politics and inside struggle for power in FIDE. It's not about chess, or honor, or moral or ethics.