Why there's no classical time control rating in chess.com?

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Noam_Tal

The player pool is small at 60+0 but some play it, and I find it weird that it is considered rapid by chess.com

justbefair
Noam_Tal wrote:

The player pool is small at 60+0 but some play it, and I find it weird that it is considered rapid by chess.com

The reason they don't have it is that so few people play games with very long time controls.

Some people have asked for it and in the last "State of Chess.com" broadcasts Danny Rensch reported that they are actually considering it.

DarkMechaKnightSwordX

Would be really cool if they made 60+ a new rating group and added a few more controls to it.

tygxc

It strains the eyes too much to stare at a screen for hours.

Mazetoskylo
tygxc wrote:

It strains the eyes too much to stare at a screen for hours.

A hell of a lot of official FIDE classical time control games are currently played at the Tornelo platform. The rules are quite different than the ones in chess dot com, but still, they are online classical chess, and FIDE rates them selectively (they have said that rather soon they will rate all the hybrid games).

nklristic
DarkMechaKnightSwordX wrote:

Would be really cool if they made 60+ a new rating group and added a few more controls to it.

I would like that, but realistically I don't think they will ever do it. Too few people are playing those type of games. Under 1 500, there are some people playing this, though still less than other time controls. Over 1 500, only a handful of people.

To get someone my level, I have to wait for a long time, and even then it is in many cases someone 200 points lower than me. I had an excursion in 30|0 games last year and my rating got to almost 1 800. I was able to play it for around 2 months or so, and I ended up going back to 60|0 games (of course my rating followed, because there are simply almost never players rated 1 800 and above there).

And that is a shame because 30|0 and faster time controls, it is simply not the same for me, I get frustrated because there is a point where I have to play some move, where I know there is a chance I would find something better in a longer game.

nklristic
tygxc wrote:

It strains the eyes too much to stare at a screen for hours.

Most of the time, it is not that. Many people are playing blitz and bullet, and are still in front of the screen for multiple hours, as they play game after game. One long game would be less time in front of the screen when compared with that.

It is just the tendency that people prefer fast things online (that is one reason why tiktok clips are popular these days, even 10 minute clip is too long for many people), they don't have the patience to play 1 single game for an hour or more.

BigChessplayer665

I have the patience for an hour long game just not the attention span

tygxc

@6

"I had an excursion in 30|0 games"
++ Better play 15|10: it is the official time control like for the Rapid World Championship.
Thanks to the increment you always have 10 seconds per move to win a won position or draw a drawn position.
Theoretically 15|10 would have the same duration as 30|0 for a game of 90 moves, but in practice you can play your clock closer to zero with the increment.

BigChessplayer665

Humans always have had a short attention span which is what tictok exploits it nothing about patience lol attention span is between 2sec-20+min depending on what it is(I think the average is something like 3 min)

tygxc

@7

"Many people are playing blitz and bullet, and are still in front of the screen for multiple hours,
as they play game after game." ++ They pause between games and they do not concentrate as deeply on a position as in classical.

Martin_Stahl

As far as I'm aware there are plans to add a more classical rating pool and a hyper-bullet one. However, my understanding is that die to the sides of the databases, it's not a trivial addition. Also, I haven't seen any indication on what minimum time control will be considered for the classical rating.

tygxc

@5

"official FIDE classical time control games are currently played at the Tornelo platform."
++ Yes, since COVID. Anyway there are many demands on chess equipment:
'The pieces should not be shiny and should be pleasing to the eye.'
'The boards must not be shiny, and have a dull or neutral finish.'
https://handbook.fide.com/chapter/StandardsOfChessEquipment2022 
Fischer for example was very picky on the quality of chess equipment, and he refused to play in the Lugano 1968 Olympiad as he found the chess equipment unsatisfactory.

tygxc

@13

"what minimum time control will be considered for the classical rating"
'A.1 A ‘Rapid chess’ game is one where either all the moves must be completed in a fixed time of more than 10 minutes but less than 60 minutes for each player; or the time allotted plus 60 times any increment is of more than 10 minutes but less than 60 minutes for each player.'
https://handbook.fide.com/chapter/E012023

Martin_Stahl
tygxc wrote:

@13

"what minimum time control will be considered for the classical rating"
'A.1 A ‘Rapid chess’ game is one where either all the moves must be completed in a fixed time of more than 10 minutes but less than 60 minutes for each player; or the time allotted plus 60 times any increment is of more than 10 minutes but less than 60 minutes for each player.'
https://handbook.fide.com/chapter/E012023

As I have posted before, the site does not have to follow FIDE rules in how it handles rating pools ,or any other rules. For example, 10|0 is blitz. For FIDE and US Chess but is Rapid here.

nklristic
tygxc wrote:

@6

"I had an excursion in 30|0 games"
++ Better play 15|10: it is the official time control like for the Rapid World Championship.
Thanks to the increment you always have 10 seconds per move to win a won position or draw a drawn position.
Theoretically 15|10 would have the same duration as 30|0 for a game of 90 moves, but in practice you can play your clock closer to zero with the increment.

Nah, 15|10 is still shorter, I've tried that, played a few games during the years. For instance I had a completely lost position , and then my opponent blundered without provocation afterwards, I almost had no enjoyment from that win.

In many cases, I have this feeling of unfulfillment when I play 15|10. It was even worse than 30|0 which was kind of passable, but basically 60|0 I like much more (and something like 45|45 perhaps even more, but that is now a custom time control, so no luck for me).

"Many people are playing blitz and bullet, and are still in front of the screen for multiple hours,
as they play game after game." ++ They pause between games and they do not concentrate as deeply on a position as in classical.

Sometimes they do, but most of the time, not really, many still play for hours, and only then they make a small break. In any case, they are perfectly capable of playing one 60|0 game. In practice, they rarely last for 2 hours anyway. It is just that they choose not to play those as they prefer playing shorter games online.
BigChessplayer665

@nklristic that's why I don't play rapid they all suck online at least in blitz you will blunder back so it's deserved

tygxc

@17

"they are perfectly capable of playing one 60|0 game"
++ Yes, but if they commit for 2 hours and get an uninteresting opponent, it may not be worth it.
In an over the board tournament or competition you have better guarantees of a worthy opponent for the time you commit.

tygxc

@16

"10|0 is blitz" ++ Yes, it is, and it should be here too. Also increment should be before and not after the move. Also handling of dead positions and insufficient material is erroneous here.

To answer your question:
A classical chess game is one where the time allotted plus 60 times any increment is 60 minutes or more for each player. So 60|0 or 45|15 or 30|30 are the fastest classical time controls.

nklristic
BigChessplayer665 wrote:

Humans always have had a short attention span which is what tictok exploits it nothing about patience lol attention span is between 2sec-20+min depending on what it is(I think the average is something like 3 min)

Tendencies online have changed a lot during the last 20 years. For instance, 15 years ago, I played online football (you would call it soccer) manager type of game. It had almost 1 million users worldwide, and a relatively big community. The deal was, when you started playing, you are in a really low division (and season lasted for around 4 months), and in order to be really strong, several years, real life years, have to pass.

It was popular in the mid 2000s. Tendencies online have changed and of course user base declined through the years. 15-20 years ago, it was not outrageous to think someone would play such a game. Today? Not really. 
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that's why I don't play rapid they all suck online at least in blitz you will blunder back so it's deserved

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The bulk of rapid rating here is achieved through 10 minute games, and those are still blitz OTB. 10 minute for a game of chess is nothing special. It is not so different than 5|5 game for instance, it is actually a bit more treacherous. You think you have some time, but you actually do not. happy.png

I was pretty surprised when I played some 30|0 games against 2 000 rated people (and many of those are actually 2 000 from playing 10 minute games). I expected to be crushed, but many of the games ended in a draw. And in many cases, when I play someone who plays different time controls than me, and he is the same rating as me, I find his game worse than I would expect from that rating. I will lose some games, for sure, but on average that is how I feel.

That is one good reason to separate rapid and classical rating. I find that in many cases (at least on 1 600+ level in 60|0 games) people are stronger than the same rating in 10|0 and even 30|0 games.