Is Threefold repetition not working

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Prat10

 
offered draw before playing and submitting 22.Qe2, but after making the move the game is not drawn...Again before making 23.Bb1 i pressed "offer draw" button bt still the game is on...why the threefold repetition thing not working..or is it that i offered draw before i made that move 22.Qe2 

Prat10

http://www.chess.com/echess/game?id=78275410

 

here is the link.please enlighten me whether i am wrong or not..

furtiveking

You have to offer the draw when the game is IN the repeated position.

Executie

The repition only works for checks i think

waffllemaster

The way you tried to do it is correct for an OTB tournament, but on chess.com you have to click the draw button after making the move.

Rsava

No, it is not just for checks.

You have to claim the draw after the thrid repetition. 

If you click the Draw button BEFORE the third repetition, it just offers the Draw to yourt opponent.

If you click the Draw button immediately after the move that creates the third repetition, the draw is automatic.

Prat10

yes..but the threefold repetition rule (also known as repetition of position) states that a player can claim a draw if the same position occurs three times, or will occur after their next move, with the same player to move..i made a draw offer and then made the move..bt neither the game ended nor i did got any chance to claim draw after i made the move

waffllemaster
Prat10 wrote:

yes..but the threefold repetition rule (also known as repetition of position) states that a player can claim a draw if the same position occurs three times, or will occur after their next move, with the same player to move..i made a draw offer and then made the move..bt neither the game ended nor i did got any chance to claim draw after i made the move

Yes, this is the rule for OTB tournaments.  On chess.com you have to make the move and click the draw button fast enough before your opponent makes his next move.


I agree with you though.  Since chess.com makes you claim it (some sites it's automatic) I think they should allow you to draw the way the rules state it.  It would be nice to see this changed.

Rsava
Prat10 wrote:

yes..but the threefold repetition rule (also known as repetition of position) states that a player can claim a draw if the same position occurs three times, or will occur after their next move, with the same player to move..i made a draw offer and then made the move..bt neither the game ended nor i did got any chance to claim draw after i made the move

The site has no way of knowing what move you are GOING TO make. Hence the reason, on this site, you have to make the move THEN claim the draw. How would the chess.com server know what move you are going to make?

In real life you have to write your move down then claim the draw. The only way to "write" you move down is to actually make the move.

This has been argued plenty before. This is the way it is. Accept it or don't play anymore.

Rsava
waffllemaster wrote:

I agree with you though.  Since chess.com makes you claim it (some sites it's automatic) I think they should allow you to draw the way the rules state it.  It would be nice to see this changed.

But waffle - how would the site know what move you INTEND to make?

How would you "write" your move down without actually moving?

furtiveking
waffllemaster wrote:
Prat10 wrote:

yes..but the threefold repetition rule (also known as repetition of position) states that a player can claim a draw if the same position occurs three times, or will occur after their next move, with the same player to move..i made a draw offer and then made the move..bt neither the game ended nor i did got any chance to claim draw after i made the move

Yes, this is the rule for OTB tournaments.  On chess.com you have to make the move and click the draw button fast enough before your opponent makes his next move.


I agree with you though.  Since chess.com makes you claim it (some sites it's automatic) I think they should allow you to draw the way the rules state it.  It would be nice to see this changed.

I don't disagree that a change might be warrented, but, keep in mind that the sites were it happens automatically do it just as incorrectly. The rule very clearly states that a player MAY claim the draw. According to official FIDE rules, a draw by three-fold repetition is by no means automatic.

waffllemaster
Rsava wrote:

But waffle - how would the site know what move you INTEND to make?

How would you "write" your move down without actually moving?

Like he did.  Click draw then make your move.  If your move makes the 3rd repetition then it's a draw.

furtiveking wrote:

the sites were it happens automatically do it just as incorrectly.

Yep.

McHeath

There are conditional move windows in turn based chess ... maybe that sort of system would be the best? You enter the move in the window which would be the third repetition, then claim the draw without having to play it.

TheGrobe

A player may be totally robbed of the opportunity to claim the draw in a pre-move or conditional move scenario.  It should be possible to declare your intent to claim the draw and then complete your move in order to fix this (of course, if you do not complete the third repetition the draw claim would be negated).

Prat10

@Rsava:: alright fine. .taking your point,i made made the move 3rd repetition of position and then ask for a draw offer nah,then i should get the button where it reads "offer draw/claim draw" right? after making that move ,i didn't got anythng lyk "offer draw/claim draw"..okk now talk big Yell. u are talking abt rules nah, now talk..i didn't post that in the forum just like that,okk

Prat10

bt @wafflemaster::before playing 3rd repetition of move ,i offered draw.since the game didn't ended .then i remember welsey so/some other gm making that same mistake claiming draw before making the move....bt after i made that move, i didn't got anything lyk "claim draw/offer draw"

Rsava
Prat10 wrote:

@Rsava:: alright fine. .taking your point,i made made the move 3rd repetition of position and then ask for a draw offer nah,then i should get the button where it reads "offer draw/claim draw" right? after making that move ,i didn't got anythng lyk "offer draw/claim draw"..okk now talk big . u are talking abt rules nah, now talk..i didn't post that in the forum just like that,okk

Well you started babbling at the end.

It amazes me how there are, at any given time, several HUNDRED THOUSAND people using this site but a few people can't seem to figure out how to make it work. 

You state: "offered draw before playing and submitting"

How is that AFTER you made the move? It has to be IMMEDIATELY after making the move. Deal with it, you are wrong.

Rsava
waffllemaster wrote:
Rsava wrote:

But waffle - how would the site know what move you INTEND to make?

How would you "write" your move down without actually moving?

Like he did.  Click draw then make your move.  If your move makes the 3rd repetition then it's a draw.

Ok, but how would the system know that it was not a plain draw offer and it was intended for the next move?

TheGrobe

This isn't all that complicated.  I'm sure chess.com could figure out a relatively intuitive interface.  The alternative is leaving a not-insignificant problem in place, especially when conditional moves or pre-moves are at play.

Rsava
TheGrobe wrote:

This isn't all that complicated.  I'm sure chess.com could figure out a relatively intuitive interface.  The alternative is leaving a not-insignificant problem in place, especially when conditional moves or pre-moves are at play.

Yes, I can see the issue if your opponent uses conditional moves to prevent the claim.

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