Insufficient material - bishop vs 2 pawns - why this is a draw?

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Levitron666

White runs out of time, why this is a draw?

IMKeto

You dont have mating material, and white ran out of 

Levitron666
FishEyedFools kirjutas:

You dont have mating material, and white ran out of 

But there's enough material on the board to mate him.

IMKeto
Levitron666 wrote:
FishEyedFools kirjutas:

You dont have mating material, and white ran out of 

But there's enough material on the board to mate him.

You only have a Bishop, and King.

Levitron666

Yes, but I can mate him, I thought that's all that matters.

IMKeto
Levitron666 wrote:

Yes, but I can mate him, I thought that's all that matters.

How can you mate with 1 Bishop, and a King?

Nevermind...Im untracking this.  

Levitron666

 

Hadron

Wait....(pause)....your serious....Mate with a Bishop and King?.....In a word..."No"

As to you analysis after 47...Bxd5 is....well....flawed. Not withstanding the other ways to avoid trapping the White King on a8     56.a7??? is just tripe 56.d5 just draws...

eric0022
Levitron666 wrote:

Yes, but I can mate him, I thought that's all that matters.

 

Unfortunately, under Chess.com and USCF rules, the side having only a king and a bishop OR knight (with nothing else on the board) draws even if the opponent's materials on the board make it possible for a mate to be delivered by the side having the king and bishop OR knight only.

 

Under FIDE rules though, the outcome would be a win for the player having the king and bishop OR knight only.

eric0022
Hadron wrote:

Wait....(pause)....your serious....Mate with a Bishop and King?.....In a word..."No"

As to you analysis after 47...Bxd5 is....well....flawed. Not withstanding the other ways to avoid trapping the White King on a8     56.a7??? is just tripe 56.d5 just draws...

 

Levitron666 is just showing that it is possible for Black to checkmate the White king with the material remaining on the board.

Hadron
eric0022 wrote:
Hadron wrote:

Wait....(pause)....your serious....Mate with a Bishop and King?.....In a word..."No"

As to you analysis after 47...Bxd5 is....well....flawed. Not withstanding the other ways to avoid trapping the White King on a8     56.a7??? is just tripe 56.d5 just draws...

 

Levitron666 is just showing that it is possible for Black to checkmate the White king with the material remaining on the board.

You don't say? Anything is possible.... [Removed by moderator: Olympiad - Reason: Politics]

If you would like to discuss politics, you may do so in the Open Discussion club.

 

eric0022

Here are some other combinations (there are many more) which yield only draws on timeout under Chess.com and USCF rules, but a win on timeout for the player still having the time left on the clock.

 

 

eric0022
Hadron wrote:
eric0022 wrote:
Hadron wrote:

Wait....(pause)....your serious....Mate with a Bishop and King?.....In a word..."No"

As to you analysis after 47...Bxd5 is....well....flawed. Not withstanding the other ways to avoid trapping the White King on a8     56.a7??? is just tripe 56.d5 just draws...

 

Levitron666 is just showing that it is possible for Black to checkmate the White king with the material remaining on the board.

You don't say? Anything is possible....

 

There is only one weird ruling on Chess.com that I have seen (not from my game, but another player was unhappy with the ruling) so far and I completely do not fathom, that is, the final position of a king and two same colour-squared bishops versus a bare king is declared a win for the same-coloured bishops.

 

The issue is discussed here https://www.chess.com/forum/view/general/why-isn-t-this-insufficient-material where the outcome is a win for some unknown reason, which so far is believed to be some programming thing.

madhacker

Chess.com is slightly different from FIDE rules on this point, but there's a good reason for it. In a FIDE tournament, you could just call the arbiter and claim the draw under insufficient losing chances or whatever it's called, and you'd get the draw. Since there's no arbiter on the internet, it just awards the draw automatically.

Levitron666
eric0022 kirjutas:
Levitron666 wrote:

Yes, but I can mate him, I thought that's all that matters.

 

Unfortunately, under Chess.com and USCF rules, the side having only a king and a bishop OR knight (with nothing else on the board) draws even if the opponent's materials on the board make it possible for a mate to be delivered by the side having the king and bishop OR knight only.

 

Under FIDE rules though, the outcome would be a win for the player having the king and bishop OR knight only.

Thnx! happy.png

eric0022
madhacker wrote:

In a FIDE tournament, you could just call the arbiter and claim the draw under insufficient losing chances or whatever it's called, and you'd get the draw. Since there's no arbiter on the internet, it just awards the draw automatically.

 

I am not sure if the draw must be claimed by a player while his/her time is still running (for an over-the-board game with an arbiter present). Hard to say if the player with the pawns can ask for a draw once his/her time runs out. Though, we all know that the side having the pawns will not play at a sufficiently mediocre level to get checkmated.

 

Hmmm...regarding the no arbiter part, good point.

eric0022
Levitron666 wrote:
eric0022 kirjutas:
Levitron666 wrote:

Yes, but I can mate him, I thought that's all that matters.

 

Unfortunately, under Chess.com and USCF rules, the side having only a king and a bishop OR knight (with nothing else on the board) draws even if the opponent's materials on the board make it possible for a mate to be delivered by the side having the king and bishop OR knight only.

 

Under FIDE rules though, the outcome would be a win for the player having the king and bishop OR knight only.

Thnx!

 

Thus, if you are losing on time, you must quickly remove pawns, queens and rooks on the board (these take precedence over the capture of knights and bishops). I will rather secure a draw on timeout (or draw by insufficient material depending on the situation) rather than a loss on time with one more move to checkmate if I hold a king and queen while my opponent holds a king and pawn.

madhacker

It hardly ever comes up OTB these days anyway, because of increments.

madhacker

I played a game in Gibraltar last week (against an experienced FM who should have known the rules better!) where we both had under 5 minutes on the clock and so nobody is recording the moves. He's repeating moves in order to try to gain time on the clock, and thinks I can't claim it because there's no record. Of course, he forgets that it's a digital board, so I call the arbiter and ask them to check it on the internet, and sure enough they award me the draw, much to his annoyance happy.png

Reef_Drop

How does someone get to this ELO and not know that it's impossible to checkmate with only a king and bishop?

If someone has only a king and bishop, the absolute best outcome you are playing for is a draw.

I'm in a daily game right now where I have two connected passed pawns and a king and the other guy has a bishop and king. He's successfully blocked me to the point where I know I cannot ever promote unless he literally allows me to and he is refusing to accept a draw LOL. I'm the only one at this point with winning chances of any kind and he insists on playing it out.

It's going to be so hilarious if he screws this up and I manage to promote. What an idiot.