Real insufficient material

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Mirrorglass

 

 

 

 

 

 

Yeah, so this game in live I was just about to lose ended as a draw due to "insufficient material". Now I'm no grandmaster, but that just seems wrong to me.

jeremy95

well if the other his time ran out, then you should win. you havent enough material to mate him though, so its a draw. see? Cool

DimKnight

If your opponent, being two pawns, a bishop, a rook, and TWO QUEENS ahead can't mate you before his clock runs out, it's his own fault. Especially since an immediate ...Qe4 is mate.

Mirrorglass

Yeah, I'd have understood a time win, but the game was recorded as a *draw*, so there must be a bug in the system.

Torkil

It's not a bug. At least not if what the other posters possibly assume is true and your opponent timed out in the above position. In that case you are awarded a draw, as you have only the bare king left and thereby "insufficient material" to even theoretically mate your opponent.

Mirrorglass

Ah, I see. Is that official tournament rules, or just site policy?

Scarblac

Official tournament rules.

The FIDE rules say something like "the game is a draw if the player whose opponent ran out of time cannot possibly deliver checkmate from the given position, not even against the worst possible play" (paraphrased).

This is very complex (K+2N vs K cannot force mate, but it is still a win under this rule when the player with the lone king runs out of time). K+N vs K cannot checkmate, but K+N vs K+rook pawn can.

So there are cases that are very hard to arbitrate even over the board. Presumably, chess.com's rule is a simplified version of the official tournament rule, since it is extremely hard to implement the actual rule.

buster47

Real insufficient material

 I hope that it wasn't your wife telling you that?  Tongue out

Mirrorglass
buster47 wrote:
Real insufficient material

 I hope that it wasn't your wife telling you that? 


Ouch.

For the others, thanks for the info.

AtahanT
Scarblac wrote:

This is very complex (K+2N vs K cannot force mate, but it is still a win under this rule when the player with the lone king runs out of time). K+N vs K cannot checkmate, but K+N vs K+rook pawn can.

So there are cases that are very hard to arbitrate even over the board. Presumably, chess.com's rule is a simplified version of the official tournament rule, since it is extremely hard to implement the actual rule.


It's not really that hard. There are positions where you can't force mate but you can mate if the opponent plays into the mate. Other positions can't end up in mate even if both sides try. The rule says that if you can't mate with worst play for the weaker side it is a draw. 2xN+K vs K is a win because you actually can mate someone that is not playing his best but you can never force the mating pattern.Most of these positions are well known and are not that hard to program into the game. Should work as intended I think.

wiseachoo
DimKnight wrote:

If your opponent, being two pawns, a bishop, a rook, and TWO QUEENS ahead can't mate you before his clock runs out, it's his own fault. Especially since an immediate ...Qe4 is mate.


 Next time say Qce4 or Q2e4 Wink

ozzie_c_cobblepot

BQe4

c-rook-ed

black should,ve took care of bizzzz. way to much power he could,ve

risked a stalemate.