Making Premoves optional (with workflow)

For many players, Premoves are a blight on the game and they would prefer to play without them.  For many more, they love premoves and will actively fight against their removal. 

Currently, however, there is no way on chess.com to play a game without premoves as one player doesn't know how the other player is configured.

The concept is simple.   Make the ability to use premoves a game-by-game proposition, controlled by the player making the challenge. eg

The workflow: 

1. The player creating the challenge determines whether Premoves will be Enabled or Disabled for the game.  The default would be Enabled.

2. The player would only be able to use premoves if they have enabled them in their settings (current functionality) AND premoves were Enabled in the challenge (new functionality).   

3. If premoves were Disabled when the challenge was created, then premoves would be disabled for both players regardless of their player settings. 

4. The player would also have the ability to hide challenges on the Challenge Tab that have premoves enabled (similar to hiding computer player challenges)

5. Games with Premoves disabled would be displayed in blue (or another colour) on the Challenge Graph, with "np" beside them indicating "no premoves" (similar to u for unrated). 

Would be happy to flesh out the workflow even further if there is any support out there. 

Bottom line tho, is that I personally hate premoves with a passion.  For me, they destroy Bullet games and I don't buy the argument put forward by those that love them - to the point that I am constantly considering doing away with playing online chess altogether.   

I fully appreciate however, that there a plenty of people out there who love premoves, particularly in Bullet, and would be furious if they were removed. 

The above, I believe, would be a workable compromise...

Premoves are a bit of a farce - you can have 31 secs left on the clock whilst your opponent has 2 secs, but mysteriously your opponent beats you. Show a yellow dot for premove games - just a thought.

Ok, so how does premoves differ from thematic moves?

Barefoot_Player

@Barefoot_Player:   Check this link: http://support.chess.com/index.php?_m=knowledgebase&_a=viewarticle&kbarticleid=696 for info on premoves.

this is a good idea. it should happen

My digital chess clock has a mode that would allow the same thing in OTB. If a player has a winning line of play and can execute it quickly enough shouldn't they win? Winning on time has always been a bit of an unholy win.

I like the earlier suggestion that the game could have premoves optionally disabled for both players.

Agreed, but the issue Forteken is talking about is that the player on 2 secs wins on time - not on a winning line of play.  

As soon as your oponent starts to premove, you need to start premoving as well - and someones clock wins after 20-30 rubbish moves... otherwise, whatever time advantage you had gets wiped by your oponent's moves taking only 0.1 secs per move off the clock - which is exacerbated by you needing to reply in 0.1 secs.

Thats only going to happen if you're premoving as well - and many players can't because its not turned on for them because they have no idea what they are. Subsequently, they don't know how they went from a winning position, to losing on time.

Further, most people, before they know what premoves are, will accuse someone else of cheating at least once before they're pointed to the root cause of it all... 

That said, I'm not against others playing with premoves - I'd just like the option of opting out of those games :) 

Seems a logical solution to the divide.   I don't play bullet, but i can see how that would drive one crazy to end up in a premove gunfight with no ammo.

I have been up against this pre-move douchebaggery but no one will lend me their ears. So I just sucked it up and now I am little better even in bullet.I will try that EthicsGradient but I would still inform my opponent that premoves are disabled so he knows before I beat the crap outta him-just saying. hey thanks for sharing.

true.  but neither did your oponent, and they got the win... further, with lag, they had a distinct time advantage.   Case in point:  earlier tonight I played a bullet where my oponents clock went to 0 three times due to lag.  After each move it went back to 8 secs and took 0.1 off the clock... thats virtually unplayable.

I don't know why... I already play bullet with Premoves disabled, as to many, many others... my rating is not modified or handicapped.  

gg, thx :)

Make it hppen peopel!!!!

good puzzle

Most people that complain about premoves are sub-2000 rated players. 99% of the 2000+ players know what premoves are, use premoves and don't have a problem with premoves.

...and I'd argue that there are plenty of 2000+ who can't play bullet without premoves and would probably drop well below 2000 if they stopped relying on them. 

No offense, but thats a little like saying that most people who win sprint races take steroids, therefore either get with the program and take steroids or quit.

The point is choice.  There is NO intrinsic requirement that live chess games MUST have premoves... so why can't those who hate them, play without them ? 

Its my belief that the person with a time or peice advantage should have the upper hand, and that premoves take this away, as the person applying strategy (even 1s per move) cannot go close to matching time against a premove (0.1s).  Games that could have been won via mate, lose on time.

I freely advocate that those who want to use premoves should not be affected, but I cannot see why premoves should be mandatory. 

Hey TM... I understand where you're coming from, but I'd point out that I already play bullet without premoves, as do many others.  

As such, we're already playing rated bullet games with premoves disabled, we just don't know it unless we ask...   further -  players using premoves are constantly playing opponents wihtout premoves, and currently those wins or losses count towards any rating as it stands.

Given this, I personally don't see a need for a different rating system - as the current ratings system is already operating under the same conditions (albeit on the hush :_)

And why does the opinion of sub 2000 rated players not count? I think if the majority of the site are interested in a certain option, then that option should be considered. That is regardless what that majority looks like, or what correlations exist with age, sex, political views, or chess rating.

Hi Mouse... again, I get what you're saying, but I guess my question is - how is that any different from now ?  

Everything you've mentioned is already happening.  Premove players are being paired with non-premove players,  non-premove players are playing each other, and premove players are playing each other.  

The only difference is at the moment its random - but you could do everything you've said right now if you could be bothered (except dictate that you want to  play a non-premove player)

premoves should take more than 0.1 seconds off the clock. It should be at least 0.5. I know sometimes you can be quick and make a move in less than 0.5 seconds, but not much quicker. 0.1 is a joke, and stacking the premoves makes it even more of a farce.

Granted, I've won a few games with premoves, but that feels worse than winning on time.

The fact of the matter is, when I'm using premoves, it's because I'm forced to, and probably should have used my clock wiser. I don't play bullet games, so I'm not talking about that.

Most people dont' resign in the game, so sometimes having more time on the clock is not your fault, as the other person just tries to time blitz you when he is losing. I guess that's strategy as well, but doesn't feel like chess, but there's nothign wrong with it. I do think there is something blantantly wrong with only 0.1 sec coming off the clock for a premove, that's too advantageous.